I just thoroughly cleaned the kitchen tiles. The cat is meowing at the door outside, wanting to come in because it’s raining. Poor kitten. I open the door slightly, placing a dish towel on the floor so she can dry his paws on it, and she slips inside and runs EVERYWHERE HAPPY AS CAN BE with her paws covered in muddy wateeEER! F****Ck ME!!! 
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Thank you. Thank you for your support and reaching out. Maybe I’ll get into more specifics and talk about exactly what I mean about some of this stuff on a separate thread eventually but I don’t really feel like doing it right now. It’s almost like I’ve spent my life trying to figure all of this out. Understanding my family dynamic. And How and why I’m easily a target for these people to be in my life like other people besides family
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You just described the dude I just got out of a situationship with to a T! I swear I attract this type. I always feel bad for whatever problems they have (even if they’re self-inflicted) and bend over backwards to support them. Yet, all I get in return is manipulation and gaslighting.
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About a year ago my brother and his wife called me to pretty much tell me that I was right about a lot of things and it was my brother’s wife that made my brother see or understand better. Maybe my brother couldn’t see because that’s all he knew as well. My brother said that he thinks a lot of things got unnoticed because my addiction problems was a huge distraction and when I started getting better like actually better I guess I was kind of out of the picture for the first time in a long time so things started getting noticed. Which honestly is kind of messed up but I guess makes sense. It’s seriously nuts. But at the same time it’s a relief. I swear if I wrote about this it would be like 20 or 30 pages. Basically a lot of narcissism and gaslighting in my family and I didn’t even know what those words were until therapy ,AA, And some other things recently like in the last couple years also learning after hearing about it and connecting dots and getting better myself and a lot of reading. I mean seriously on the scale of like pulling out my family tree and like making sense of things. Even with all of that said I still try to feel for these people but at the same time they don’t get a pass. But I also don’t feel like a victim or want people to feel bad for me. Mainly what I was posting tonight was about a non-family member but it’s frustrating because you think I should be able to pick up on this but like I said it’s really hard to explain but it’s like getting fooled and thinking that maybe I’m wrong but It’s a larger scale Then simply just being wrong
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Thanks for sharing and I’m glad you can relate and maybe it helps . I didn’t know what that last word was ..gaslighting!! till about a year ago and it blew my mind!! When I was taught that word in some sessions and learned about it it was incredible relief but also extreme frustration. And I don’t use that word lightly
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Growing up in a toxic situation can make us normalize being in toxic situations later🤷🏼♀️. I think we always know it’s not good but we let it happen because we are kind of just used to the treatment and have lost a bit of our self worth somewhere along the way so put up with certain things to feel liked or needed or whatever it is we think we are getting out of the current relationships we have with toxic people.
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That’s a great way to put it. Thanks so much. It is normal. When you grow up in a situation like that it does feel normal and then later on that’s just what makes sense. This conversation though made me realize that as crazy as this sounds I am almost grateful to have gone through this because it has made me really good at certain things That other people might not be. I wouldn’t say strange abilities but it’s something like that. I’m not saying I’m like Guinness book of world records unique or something lol but I think you know what I mean. Or at least understand what I’m saying to a certain degree. But seriously thanks for reaching out. I hope that I’m not the derailing this thread.. Anything else further I want to say about this topic about toxic family and everything I’m talking about I will just create a thread or look for a thread that already exist.
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Hugs to you Trevor, I understand what you are talking about.
No, you are not crazy.
Yes, toxic people manipulate others into feeling wrong when they are perfectly right.
Yes, toxic people hate truth, being called out on their bullshit, being held accountable, being confronted and bear consequences of THEIR behaviour, mobbing, gaslighting, manipulating etc.
Yes, like @CanadianGirl said people suffering toxic people in their childhood tend to repeat the pattern as those settings feel normal, known and homey to the subconscious. Therapy, learning about how narcissists, psychopaths, manipulation and (co)dependency function, awareness, standing your ground and speaking the truth and developing healthy coping mechanisms and boundaries when not avoidable help to break up the personal connection to toxic settings. Speaking from experience, it takes time and lots of self-work but it is definitely worth it. Especially the understanding of how those people function helped me to put up boundaries and communication styles that really work to keep them at arm’s length or farther.
You are not alone 
PS: You never can derail the FRO thread with something that can FRO 
Toxic people CAN FRO!!!
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Anxiety induced stomach issues can FRO. I have a lot to get done for a big day here at work tomorrow. I don’t need this tummy turmoil on top of it .
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You know what else can FRO… how people always get “sick” and can’t work their final shifts after giving their resignation to an employer. I have 2 different people in their final days who have called in today with the most ridiculous stories. I seriously don’t need this shit today !!
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I deal with coldsores too! They really can FRO. Always getting them at the worst times or sometimes back to back.
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Aaah! What a joy it is to enjoy my garden in the heart of a quiet, wooded neighborhood. I am quietly reading my book, surrounded by the songs of chickadees. My neighbor’s sliding door opens. I should mention that she is Italian, because Italians are known for shouting instead of talking. Her five boys come out of her house and start playing soccer, yelling, while she plays the guitar and sings like a pot for her sixth baby Knock-knock-knockin’ on heaven’s doOor… Yeah! Yeaah! Yea-yea-yeah! 
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Constantly bursting water pipes and road closures. This section was only fixed in May. Honestly no point having a car 
Oh London, I love you, but do I not like your antiquated water system. I think it’s Victorian. But behaves like the movie Tremors.
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At least people don’t dump their “chamber pots” right into the streets anymore. 
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Just nappies and general waste. 
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Thank for your understanding and your words. It’s not my job to Diagnose my sponsor I just let go but I’m willing to bet this is what is going on. I grew up with this very close to me and for me to not see the signs or realize is pretty stupid on my part. In the beginning maybe he was able to hide some of these traits but I think as time went on and I got Better and stronger in my recovery that became a threat to him. I think he still does have a lot of people fooled but not me anymore and not the house managers at my sober house.. this sponsor I just let go is Affiliated or connected with the house and it did have me worried. But he is a classic case of doing anything to have control or look like he has control. Lately I have realized he doesn’t want me to succeed because once again that is a threat. I wanted to tell him everything I really think and call him on his toxic bullshit but it’s not worth it. I simply thanked him for what I’ve learned and the time he spent and That the relationship is not working out and I’m going to be moving onto a different sponsor. He said that I am making a mistake and of course made it about him. He acted like a child and tried to guilt trip me. He said a bunch of crazy things. Anybody that has thoroughly worked the steps and is emotionally intelligent is not going to respond like this if you decide to change sponsors. Also shortly after he came to the house and told the house manager that I am unraveling. I literally quote “unraveling” . I really do feel like I escaped some kind of weird mind game bullshit. I already know that he’s going to go around gossiping in this small community but that is on him and just makes him look Pathetic and desperate. I feel like Lately he could sense I was figuring out who he truly is and that’s why he was becoming desperate and showing up at my apartment without calling more often and saying toxic things to me that were uncalled for and no reason for. I’ve learned from past experiences that people like this are not good with people that walk away from them or learn what they’re like. I found out about the unraveling thing because he tried to come over to my apartment after that and I just didn’t answer the door because I don’t feel like dealing with him. After that I walked across the street and the house manager was laughing saying that I’ve never seen you Unraveling! This shit is crazy. Literally. Like I said it basically comes down to me being a threat to him. A misery likes company type thing. There was a brief period where he made me start thinking that maybe I’m not doing good. But that’s exactly what these type of people want to do!! Make you question your sanity. Then I had to look at the facts and Take a look at my life. My life is full of gratitude, happiness and contentment. The complete opposite of this former sponsor
I feel relieved. I got a temporary sponsor that is a guy at my sober living house and we have similar sobriety time but I did that just To have somebody I can talk to on a regular basis but I’m going to be looking for somebody with very decent and legitimate sobriety.. I’m not sure if I’m going to have to complete the steps again but I’m willing to do that if that’s what they want. Any sign of toxic bullshit and I’m out. This is definitely going to be a interview process like getting a job
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Same 
And it’s the reason I’ve been single for the past 3.5 years. I still don’t trust my judgment when it comes to relationships bc I’m not even sure what a normal one looks like!
Anyway, what @bluekoolaid_88 describes here is what we call a ‘narcissist’. A term I never fully understood until coming across an article that made me realize I was dating one! Learning about this personality type was extremely helpful and taught me ways to combat it (while planning my escape), but if you’ve already gotten away, STAY AWAY!!! They’re capable of inflicting ungodly amounts of damage, so ‘No Contact’ is the only way. Can’t play games with someone who isn’t playing 
All the best 
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I can tell you’ve had alot of experience with these types of people and I’m sorry for that 
They are horrible, and you’re right, they can FRO, but understanding them is half the battle (that most don’t conquer). In doing so, you will understand more of yourself 
They can’t control you, only you can. Just as you can’t control their actions, only your reactions. Experiencing this makes you stronger, while they continue to be that pathetic, weak person they think nobody sees. Giving them space in your head still lets them have control. Give them what they deserve. Nothing. Good old Karma will take care of the rest
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Yeah I have a crazy amount of experience with this but I didn’t know any of the terminologies or names for things until the last two years maybe a little longer. But I have my whole entire Life of piecing things together and basically playing investigator. And I still don’t really fully understand it and I don’t think I ever will. I also will probably spend the rest of my life second-guessing whether I’m right or wrong about this or these people but that’s just part of it or what I’m learning. It’s not like I’ve gone into group therapy with these people I just have talked to therapist or psychologist on my own with extremely detailed notes. A crazy amount of notes and writings about this. But I have to be clear I don’t feel like a victim and I don’t feel damaged. But recently I am frustrated because of this sponsor which I kind of feel like slipped through the cracks in my brain or some thing and somehow I did not notice the signs until I started really questioning and calling him out on things. I think I probably knew for a lot longer but for some reason I was doubting it but it’s hard to explain it’s like this mental Back-and-forth am I right or am I wrong. But this is a lot easier of a situation because it’s a sponsor not my parent or cousin or girlfriend. It’s way better with situation than I’ve been in before. When I fired my sponsor today he said a lot of ridiculous things. The main thing he said was that I’m giving up on my recovery lol. That I guess I’m not in for the fight of my life. Then he has the nerve to ask if I still want to go to this AA cookout on Saturday and I said no. He said he wanted explanations and I said that I don’t have to do that. We have these mandatory meetings at the sober living house I live at on Wednesday and Sunday And I really wouldn’t be surprised if he shows up tomorrow. I don’t think he’s going to be able to accept the fact that I figured this out and I let him go. But with all of my notes and things I wrote down in the last couple weeks after being 100% sure this is what I was dealing with and remembering specific things he said or games or behaviors I wrote all of this into my chatgpt And had it write me a letter explaining why I fired my sponsor in case the sober living house wants to know why or my probation. It’s actually pretty amazing and explains way better than I could and is way professional. The problem is that even a lot of people in my net work it seemed like they didn’t believe or understand what I was talking about with this sponsor. This is not really a typical case of a fire in your sponsor it’s not like not wanting to do the work or not being a good match it’s way more than that. Even though I know I need to get a sponsor I’m literally in no rush to do that right now but I do have a temporary sponsor that lives a couple doors down from me and has a similar sobriety date but it’s better than nothing for now and eventually I’ll find somebody that probably is going to want to take me through the steps again but if that’s what they want then whatever. I’ll tell you one thing when I learned about the word gaslighting about two years ago I literally broke down that was literally the best present I ever received in my life was learning what that word was. More than learning what that word was with just having It explained to me And it was like the missing piece in my 30 year investigation. also having my brother call me recently and say that I was right all of these years that something was wrong and that I wasn’t crazy. My brothers wife was the one to show my brother most of the truth About these people
Maybe this should be on a separate thread but then again this type of personality and person can FRO
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Here’s the thing. That’s what they do. Get you to the point you doubt yourself and question what’s real. Saying anything and everything to make you believe ‘their truth’ (which isn’t true at all). Probably the reason the others didn’t understand where you were coming from. They weren’t as close as you were. The closer you become, the closer you get to the truth. The real truth. And they don’t want that.
I used to describe my ex as an onion. The more layers that came off, the more rotten it became. I knew the truth when I got to the black center. Everything that came out of his mouth was a lie, the whole time. I’d been bamboozled 
I felt like the victim I was and never felt so much anger in my life. The ruminating didn’t stop until I quit drinking. At that point, I realized how sick he really was and can’t say for sure, but think I forgave him 
You can forgive someone and still think they should FRO, right?! Idk 
All I know is I feel grateful coming out of that experience the way I did. Taught me alot. It’s best to listen to your gut. Doesn’t matter what’s actually right or wrong. If it feels wrong, that’s probably the right answer.
The magical word I never knew the meaning of before recovery that made sense of my whole life was codependency Eye opener right there 
There is a thread for this btw. Children of NPD* or something like that (*narcissistic personality disorder)
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