Actually @BroccoliHighKicks - funny enough - I am currently doing a (virtual) book club with a friend of mine. She and I are reading his first major book, Maps of Meaning, which dates back to before he was (ahem) a cause célèbre.
The executive summary is it’s interesting as a cultural study. It is quite long winded and frankly… there’s a lot of superfluous verbiage. But it is interesting how he ties things together in his argument about possible origins of evil / deviant behaviour.
I am just beginning this audio course and I would looooooove to study it with some friends. It isn’t technically a “book” but it’s organized into sections and the lecturer is phenomenal. It’s all about how stress is part of life, and what helps us isn’t so much the reduction of stress, but instead the conscious “tuning” of our attitude & our responses to it.
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-to-make-stress-work-for-you
That is my exact situation as well 
Ok sounds good. Let’s keep in touch - if we remember to. 
Good thanks! About to step into a meeting so will give a short reply & check back later.
Highlights:
How about you?
That’s good stuff. It’s nice to know what we can control, and what is less controllable (even when it still matters to us). Sobriety is something we can do for ourselves out of love and care - and that gives us strength to “roll with the punches” on everything else. 
I think that you could still have a sponsor even though you are away. You would just need to find one that was willing to work long distance with you. There are people in Canada that have sponsors in the States because that’s who they clicked with and whose recovery they really respected.
The only limitations in life are the ones you put on yourself. Being open to new ways and ideas has been amazing. And for the record I am not a die hard NA’er… its not NA or you will fail. I go to SMART meetings, I checkout Recovery Dharma meetings, I respect people who find recovery in anyways that works from them and I have never voice differently. All that I can share though is what has worked for me and what has not. What didn’t work for me was trying to do this without a program, with only family and dr support. What has worked for me thus far is working a very solid program of recovery everyday, having a sponsor, working the steps, having alot of physical and mental health support and support from my friends and family.
I have to admit it gets a bit frustrating when people continue to be wilful and overly opinionated about 12 step programs as people are fucking dying from addiction everywhere. Honesty who gives a fuck about dogma when someone’s life might be saved? It is what you make it.
You know I love the steps and work them myselves as well, so I don’t consider myself overly opinionated about them.
However, to quote you :
You and I both do apparently, else we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
In my opinion, those who tell me I can’t work the steps without a sponsor, are telling me I can’t eat macaroni without cheese. It’s just another custom habit that has grown into a dogma.
Exactly - yet the dogmatic approach of our traditions sometimes keeps people away from the rooms… if people’s life might be saved by macaroni without cheese, then why not let them eat it ?
In this perticular case, I see a girl on here asking whether she can do a step 4 without a sponsor. Of course you can, start with it ! Work it, and along the road it will reveal itself whether you want a sponsor or therapist or whatever to help you move forward.
But don’t wait for a sponsor or whatever to start !
That is exactly what I reject. See, in my opinion a sponsor will never really know me. All they can work with, is théir interpretation of my stepwork (which in itself is solely an interpretation of my own mind).
How could someone, not being able to meet me several times in person, to understand my body language (or lack of it…), my surroundings, my life, “read” me ?
If that would really work, then why are autists even trying to compensate their lack of understanding of those important factors ?
All a sponsor long distance can and would do, is tell me hís interpretation of my addiction… which basically reminds me of a certain psycholgist telling me I should just accept things I denied, simply because the DSM opposed my own experiences regarding my own life.
Exactly. For example, believing you can’t do the steps without a sponsor…
I agree you can’t do them all alone though - I needed a psychologist in the proces. I need my NA group. I need other autists. For every single aspect of my life I struggle with, even the slightest bit, I need input from others. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be a sponsor.
I prefer input from many different people.
One final remark on the “sponsor tradition” - it’s 2022, yet still the traditions state I can’t get a female sponsor… 
In some aspects, our traditions are just outdated.
Thanks for your response.
We still like discussions 
Consider GOD the abbreviation of Group Of Drunks. We’ll happily be your higher power 
Google Minnasota model.
It’s the same 12 steps without the God issue.
Yet you’re an addict like all of us.
Men is not your enemy mate.
Welcome! I personally don’t consider myself religious but spiritual. For me, I feel like I needed to believe in some form of a higher power because I needed to admit to myself that I was powerless over alcohol and I needed some other thing to turn to, to help restore me to sanity and stop. When I didn’t go this route it seemed it was all willpower and I proved to have none of that. I’m really interested in other methods though, just to gain more knowledge about different types of recovery. I would hope most people would support and love anyone who is trying to better themselves and recover from addiction. I know I do! 
That respect works both ways.
Topics like this only divide into atheists and non-atheists.
Not productive when the focus should be on similarities. We’re all addicts.
I don’t think they were saying men are the enemy… I believe they were wanting to find a group of people who believe the same things they do. And that’s a great thing to have
I feel like we have already said they we do respect other peoples beliefs and how they are achieving their sobriety. This isn’t supposed to divide people… they were reaching out to find other atheist on this forum and I think that is great
@anon42928441 and @emi
Of course. Just don’t pay too much value to differences in people’s believes or lack of it.
Some AA groups are very focussed on God, others are not.
Personally I avoided AA a long time because of it. Ended up a Buddhist nevertheless.
Sobriety simply changes perception and beliefs.
Does booze kick your ass? Seems like that’s a higher power. Why not find or choose a positive power?
My first higher power was the Department of Corrections. They told me where to go, when to go, and what to do. And they helped me get sober.
I don’t believe in a religious higher power, and I use the word “God” strictly as a shorthand.
Nature, physics, metaphysics, whatever it is, it’s going to be what you need to get sober.
I really do not believe this is what the OP wanted . They were reaching out for others who believe the same as themselves. Not to have others chime in and challenge what they or others believe is along the lines of pushy… I think we should be happy and exited for anyone who is wanting to change their life and better themselves instead of questioning how they are doing it and making them uncomfortable. Let’s be happy for each other and respect others beliefs. That is what a community is about. And finding like minded people is so important in this journey.
Yea! It always struck me as kinda odd when people try to say GOD is an acronym or something. I still don’t think any one person/entity or group of people is capable of making me stronger when it’s ME who has to want it. I kinda take pride that I’m doing this on my own (with my doctors of course) without any “other” being telling me to. I chose to be strong as hell this time! Yknow?
