For the people of faith,

I got to be real here I struggle with the idea of an intelligent design. Religion faith the idea as a whole.

Science refers to ID as a pseudo science similar to horoscope and tarot, and einstein himself referred to organized religion as a superstition

This is something I struggle with every day, I think a lot of my upbringing had to do with it,
I was raised Roman Catholic to the T, yet I disliked the ideologies my parents crammed on me, like well if you just pray miracles happen.

It turned me sour, like ok I need a job and want to get vack in shape if I sit on the couch each day and just pray, they will all come to me. That is their thesis, um no and it turned me off completely to the idea plus their other character flaws which I stated in other threads.

Plus I read a ton. And science has always been a subject for me ooh and physics, so it drove me insane when science explained something that was claimed to be of religious miracles.

How do I honestly crack this line of thinking and find some faith, in something anything

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Why does it matter to find faith?

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I was raised Baptist and have been all over the map with my belief system. I investigate but am no longer interested in having all the answers. Letting go of trying to know the unknowable is where faith begins. You can have faith in yourself to start and not worry about trying to find proof of intelligent design.

The world is here. It got here somehow and it’s both beautiful and not. I also try to adhere to the Buddhist principle of being present. I have faith that there is something bigger and my view of what it is changes often.

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Well, as a Baptist pastor once told me…“of course there was a big bang that started the universe. The science proves it. What was before the big bang, that is what science cannot prove that. Something had to be there, I believe it was God”

Just my 2 cents

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I was a lot like you. My atheism was shaky but I turned my back on the Church and its human hypocrisy. But I had the additional problem that I perceived AA as religious, and since I still wanted to still drink, that was more justification for me to not get sober.

I did get sober, and in AA to boot. But I was still agnostic at best, and a hedonist/atheist. Then a thing happened. My old dog died, at home. And i thought “Where did that go, that energy that made him alive ten minutes ago and now he’s dead?” I looked up to the tree line on the back of my property and saw a glow above it. Could have been headlights on a car on the road a half mile away, I guess.

But I understood at that moment that if Einstein is right, that if matter and energy are conserved and not destroyed, that if they are merely transformed, then there was a plane of existence that is pure energy. And all things emerge from and return to that plane. And that plane is vast, beyond my comprehension. It is Universal, and I call it the Divine.

That was the day when I established a working faith, believing without knowing. I had a message from the Divine the day I got sober and I heard it again that night. Every little thing is gonna be alright.

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Pretty powerful yet you are correct energy cannot be destroyed it can only change form. Which is a factual statement yet I dig in that rabbot hole of well it can turn into… you name it

Hey @Fury
I too was raised really catholic. My understanding of the universe is very much in line with what @SinceIAwoke is saying here. I realized that the way that I understand that “vast field of energy” is different from the way the church understands it…and that’s ok. When I go back to church now with my family (my uncle is a Monsignor) I can really appreciate what they are trying to say and can look for the similarities to my understanding (as opposed to all the differences which is what I used to look for!) I think Rumi said “There are a thousand ways to kneel down and kiss the earth”. And it’s A-ok if our ways are different. If science is your bag…and Catholicism doesn’t vibe with you, “The Universe in A Single Atom” was a really good read from H.H. The Dalai Lama on the convergence of science and spirituality. Might be an Avenue to start searching down, even if it’s not a perfect fit in your quest!

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Einstein also said “ Coincidence is God’s way of remaining anonymous.”

I’m a recovering Catholic. I struggled with having faith for a long time. I have 2 kids, both were addicts. God forced his hand on me. I had no place to go but to turn it over to God. And Alanon. Because I sure as hell couldn’t control it.

Now I think sometimes we try to hard to find or have faith. I mean you get on a plane and have faith you’ll get to your destination. Little things like that.

I loved what Earnie Larsen said at my kids rehab a long time ago in the mountains of Utah. He said if you don’t believe in God, GO OUTSIDE !!! Then tell me there is no God.

And there was another thing he said.
“ Who can make a plant?” I don’t know anyone that can make a plant. It’s got to be God.

And I like what Jesus said too. “Don’t be afraid. Just believe.”

Great topic.
:pray:t2::heart:

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Hey Ely, my cousin is a monsignor too! I was in the seminary about two years ahead of him (different diocese). I only lasted two semesters before getting asked to leave!

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Good topic. Those who seek will find answers. Chiming in with my 2 cents.

“As for life, science gives us a map and faith gives us a compass.” I think it’s sad these two are often considered polar opposites. Natural sciences are a-moral since they’re describing physical phenomena. There is no compassion, no wrong & right. It just is what it is, and that’s ok.

Faith however includes a moral code. How to treat others, what is the meaning of life, what are love & forgiveness, is there life beyond what we can see and research, etc. I don’t think human race would exist anymore if we were only pursuing “survival of the fittest”.

There are many things in the world science is not able to explain. So logically, there is more out there, things that can’t be recreated in a lab, e.g.

Let’s bring this to more a personal and practical level. I know I can’t manage all things in my life. No one can. That’s where faith steps in - letting go of ego and pride and having the sense and humility to ask for help. I hit the rock bottom 1st time when I was 19 yo and gave myself over to God. Things did not fall into my lap. I still do need to do what I can and trust God to do what I can’t.

Faith is also present in little things. I sit on a chair and it holds my weight. I know this bc I’ve sat on it so many times, but there was the first time ever I’ve sat on any chair. Science can figure out that the chair is sturdy enough but I still have to choose to trust it. I hope this analogy makes sense :slight_smile:

I’m sorry you’ve been put off by people’s poor example how to lead a life of faith. People are people in every community and society, religious or not, so no place reaches ideal. (Not justifying anything people have put you thru.)

IMO, a healthy mix of scientific understanding of the world with ethical pondering is combo that gives people lots of potential. It goes quickly downhill if we try to cover all answers with only either one.

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@Olivia thank you, you know I value your opinion greatly.

But you said the magic word, trust. Maybe it’s ibe been burned too many times or that I have been 1st hand witness as to how fellow man can easily destroy each other when they trusted another human being it’s kinda sad.

Learning to trust anything is incredibly hard for me. Especially when I become emotionally charged by it,

You all said hi to my housemate last night on zoom t great dude, we been friends since day 1, but trust other than paying our share doesnt go beyond that I been told its something I have to work on, but trusting on blind faith is incredibly difficult

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I get that. Trust doesn’t come easy to me either. There are no easy answers or shortcuts but I do believe trust can be rebuilt. I think someone can be trustworthy even if they did disappoint me sometime.

For me personally faith means learning to trust God’s nature and character. He is unchanging, loving, good, just, faithful, compassionate and many other things. I don’t always understand his reasoning, things don’t go as I’d have wanted, I suffer, I’m disappointed and betrayed, I don’t see the big picture. But I’ve concluded that either this faith-thingy is bat shit crazy or it has to work. So, I do my best in trusting and believing and God is healing my heart.

It makes me sad that you and we all have had so much shit and destruction in our lives. I do believe a change is possible for us for a more fulfilling life. If my heart can heal and change, anyone’s can :wink: (considered myself a hopeless case for decades, LOL, but I’m not!)