Hi guys, I’m reading a book in which the protagonist has grown up with alcoholic parents. In his adult life he encounters an art dealer and it is described how he instantly identifies him to be a drunk: watery eyes, slow speach, extremely thin, clumsy movements with a disregard for accuracy which mirrors the disregard of the alcoholic for himself, others, things. He doesn’t have the red face, swollen and veined nose (yet, it says). Interestingly he describes how the gallery owner is preoccupied with his lips, is constantly wiping them with the back of his hand. It reads: “I’m not yet in the shop five minutes and already he has performed this gesture so well known to me three times. The preoccupation with the own mouth: another of their characteristics. Be it that they constantly touch their lips with their fingers or wet them with their tongue more frequently than other people do; be it they, as Sternberg, wipe their mouth with the back of their hand or smoke incessantly, it amounts to the same - the mouth is central to them.”
I was wondering, have you heard of this preoccupation with the mouth before? Psychologically, it makes total sense. Also, it makes for a pretty decent literary motive, so I’m interested if the author has this from observation or what?
On top of that, how easy do you find it to spot fellow alcoholics? I can often spot someone bleezing from a mile away, and can equally often tell by the way someone drinks (like me, like I used to), that they like and need it more than other people. Do you have similar observations?
I think we can all recognize the red face and the nose in older alcoholics who’ve been drinking for a long time. Also skin problems, stuff like that. I don’t know about the fascination with rubbing the mouth though, that one is new to me. Curious what is the book?
I always wipe my mouth with the back of my hand. Like it’s cleaner than the front? I also use chap stick all the time. Have one in every pocket. Couch cushions… bedside tables .purse etc. Very interesting
I tend to notice in others what were behaviors I find troubling about myself. Like looking in a mirror.
I’m big on chap stick, too. And even sober always have something to sip on even if it’s just sparkling water or tea.
Or when still drinking, lots of trips to the bathroom. At night my bladder, during the day indigestion. And had such tired eyes from not sleeping well.
For so many those giveaways often don’t mean there’s a problem. Or sometimes they are and I hope they find their way.
Either way, it’s uncomfortable to notice. Reminders why I just don’t anymore.
Hmm. This is interesting. From a young age I got addicted to chapstick. I remember in like 1st grade other kids would tell me my lips were bleeding from cracks. I didn’t even notice it. To this day I can’t go to sleep if I dont have vaseline on my lips. I do tend to lick my lips quite a bit or bite the dead skin off. And if I had to choose only one makeup to wear the rest of my life : lipstick
I notice my boyfriend bites his lips a lot too. He drinks, smokes, and does other things occasionally as well. We both pick our hangnails, sometimes til they bleed. I feel its maybe like an anxiety thing. We both have ADD. Even before drugs and alcohol I was like this. A fidgeter. Some part of me always has to move.
My younger brother has been sober almost 11 months. He still looks just as bad as he did at his worst. Just today my man saw him in Walmart and mentioned something about how red his eyes were and how bad his skin is. I thought the same thing around Christmas time making it hard to believe he truly was abstaining. He has his chips, a job, and his first real girlfriend ever so Idk.
This is going to be something I pay attention to now in my day to day life, lol. And yes, I do notice people like me. I work with a few younger kids(18-22) and I’m seeing some worrying signs. The things I was doing at their age knowing it will only get worse. I’m really trying to be a good example now. They’ve all seem me at my worst, and now I can show them my best. Nice topic
Now that you guys mention it, I’m also absolutely dead serious about chapstick, I will go back home from the subway station and get it or buy a new one, if I left it at home…
And also always always have at least one drink going, coffee or water or tea…
And @Just_Laura, lipstick, right on!
So the preoccupation with the mouth could defo be seen in me too. Two of my friends who definitely exhibited addictive behaviour in the past (now both pregnant) have been obsessive smokers, lip pickers, touchers too. Very self-conscious about the mouth.
Between not drinking and working through a lot of fears and anxieties in this recovery, I was astounded to look down one day and see my fingertips were completely healed. Probably the first time in years.
I’d found that much more calm I hadn’t even noticed I’d stopped picking. Now it’s a thing I watch out for. If I start, something’s wrong.
@Eke@Just_Laura
Finger skin picker too! My right thumb was a mess for years from picking at it. It is mostly healed now but it’s the 1st thing I start with if something is bothering me emotionally.
Also a chapstick addict. And always have a cup of water, soda water, tea or something around. Interesting
Interesting thread. I remember reading about oral fixation at uni years ago, specifically Freud. I couldn’t remember the details so looked it up. His theory is thought provoking.
“Freud developed a theory of how our sexuality starts from a very young ages and develops through various fixations. If these stages are not psychologically completed and released, we can be trapped by them and they may lead to various [defense mechanisms] to avoid the anxiety produced from the conflict in and leaving of the stage”.
Fixation
Strong conflict can fixate people at early stages.
Oral fixation
Oral fixation has two possible outcomes.
The Oral receptive personality is preoccupied with eating/drinking and reduces tension through oral activity such as eating, drinking, smoking, biting nails. They are generally passive, needy and sensitive to rejection. They will easily ‘swallow’ other people’s ideas.
The Oral aggressive personality is hostile and verbally abusive to others, using mouth-based aggression.
Technically no one can “spot an alcoholic” because its a self diagnosed disease. The amount or frequency of drinking doesnt make someone an alcoholic. I know I can spot a recovering alcoholic by them smoking cigarettes and drinking black coffee outside of a church . Interesting thread. Ive never heard about the mouth wiping thing before. I know I touch my mouth a lot, now I wonder if thats why. Anyway thanks for sharing!
I think one should be careful in case of those signs, cause many just have habits like that with or without a DOC. Maybe some signs are more likely to be found with addicts. I may be an addict now, but i wasnt when i was a kid and i have always had a “red” face, so to say. My skin easily got red fx. if i got embarresed. I just mean to say that i think its hard to spot people as alcoholic, by these signs, if they truly just have bad habits with biting lips or so because of nervousness or anxeity or so.
Honestly I think there are MANY alcoholics out there that you would never know about. No one thought I was an alcoholic. I’m sure there are lots of people that I work with who are secretly struggling yet we would never know. Not everyone has a red nose and puffy face.
Ok this was bound to happen, I guess. this wasn’t meant to the a thread to collect dead-on identifying features for alcoholics and yes, I think we all know they don’t all have puffy faces and red noses. I found the mannerisms described in the book interesting and worth mulling over. Also the aspect of recognizing one’s own behaviours in others. Didn’t mean to oversimplify.
Haha, that’s interesting! I’m also pretty naive when it comes to anything but alkies. One of my co-workers at the bar I work was always hanging out long boozy nights when he wasn’t working then going to the gym or to study late in the night/early morning. He was also pretty paranoid and into partying. I didnt put two and two together and admired him for a long time for his “work ethic” - until another collague pointed out to me this fellow has a coke habit. Lol I’d even been doing it with him a few times. It never occured to me he’d be doing coke all day long by himself…
. Interesting thread. Ive never heard about the mouth wiping thing before. I know I touch my mouth a lot, now I wonder if thats why. Anyway thanks for sharing!