Wow, thank you for this. I just read the intro in the PDF and bought a copy to keep and pass on. I also enjoyed The Emotionally Absent Mother by Jasmin Cori.
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Jess, I am so grateful you started this thread. I think these rifts can be felt generationally. I was raised by parents who had serious conflicts with their parents, so I wasn’t in the cross hairs necessarily, but I did grow up with a lot of conflict in the larger family and things being hidden from me and had to learn about the whys as a young adult. It fucking sucks. My dad became estranged from his family (his siblings, really) and my Mami had to deal with her father who expected her as the oldest daughter in a Mexican household to care for her parents as they aged but on HIS terms, promising to move to our house but then never moving, putting the blame wherever he could. Causing strife in our home. I just saw the problems people created in their relationships and as a kid I was so confused. I don’t probably belong on this thread because I had a mostly loving home with my parents and two brothers, but as the oldest sibling I was witness to a lot of crap. It really can be a generational problem. Kudos to those here and elsewhere who have to deal with this crap but then don’t inherit the madness and pass it along.
I bring this up because I’m about to reconnect with a cousin on my dad’s side, the estranged side. I have fond memories of her and we have been friends on social media for years. I’m just wondering if people here have experiences to share about reconnecting. We, as cousins, we’re on the sidelines of the big conflict. But we are still on sides. I’m nervous. I haven’t seen her since I was in my late teens (15 years?), she’s 15 years older than me so we aren’t exactly cohorts. It will be interesting.
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About the last thing my mom did and said before our family doctor helped her to end her life was to - figuratively- clutch me, and -literally- ask me if I knew how much she loved me. In her own dramatic way. It didn’t move me much, while my sis was furious afterwards. Just like my sis still is furious at my mother about lots of things, nine years after she died. And I’m still more or less indifferent about her. So high and thick is the wall I built between me and my parents, and in effect between me and the world.
Of course it is not true I was and am not moved by what happened. In my mind I see the image my mom at her deathbed blended together with my image of her on her sick bed about 40 years before, gasping for air, bloated red face caused by the huge dose of prednisone, me thinking she was dying right there. Me, somewhere around ten years old, going to the pharmacist and picking up two bags of pills and ventilators.
I’m sure my mother’s illness, asthmatic bronchitis as it was called back then, was caused for a substantial part by psychological factors. And I know also played a substantial part in my mother being emotionally unavailable for my sister and me. Maybe.
I still feel it’s a bit unfair to blame my mother so much for not being there for us, as the one who truly never was there for us was our dad and by blaming my mother he gets of lightly. I feel. That’s something I don’t understand in my sister either, as she is so much more angry at our mother. have to find a way to talk to her about that. My sister and me never were close, another thing that is to blame on our upbringing. We were never together. We always felt we had to fend for ourselves.
I relied only on myself from a very young age. I think my sister felt in a way more betrayed by our mother when she became an adolescent while I never trusted mom to be relied upon anyway. So it was easier for me to have a relatively easy relationship to my mother later in life, doing some holidays together, and eating, drinking and smoking together and talking about general stuff. Just not let her get very close. For me it was some older woman. Not really a mom.
My dad was all in for his career always. My mum was the one that wanted a family too, a loving husband, children, to develop herself, to have a career, to be a free independent woman. Which was all falling apart even before I was born but to which she clung and tried to have it all for decades while all around her it fell apart. While dad did his own thing (having affairs too).
I don’t know where I’m going with this. I have to talk to my sister. And I’ve just started a new group therapy aimed at (early) childhood trauma and I’m not even sure what that is going to be about. My early childhood lack of parenting? Or the later in my childhood sexual abuse my my teacher? or both? I feel sorry for my mom but all in all she was a terrible mom. As my dad was a terrible dad. There’s a difference in how daughters relate to their mom as to how sons do. But I don’t understand what that difference is. More stuff to talk to my sis about I guess. If we ever get there. I still feel lots of resentment towards my sister too. Sorry, I’m ranting. Thanks for the topic Jesse. X
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Thanks for sharing, can relate to a lot. Maybe you don’t need to worry about wwhere it is going. It’s big so taking it as it goes might be a good way to approach it. Look who’s talking 
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yes, thank you, I agree with you fully. because this was beginning to dawn in me in real-time I managed to bounce back from the boundary-breach kinda quickly and easier than before. I did not apologise or go out of my way to make her understand why I needed what I did, I did not plead for her understanding and say sorry for not giving her what she wanted, as I would have in the past. so in this sense this situation was kindof a novelty. but then she went on to breach that boundary. so this is now also new. I am thinking should I say sth about that when I see her on xmas or just fuck it. I really have other shit on my mind these days. I am thankfully a bit more removed from the fight or flight reaction I lived in for years around her. feeling more peaceful.
word. this is what it is. we, now as grownups but already back then as little chidren, sensing their fears and their neediness, and doing what we can to provide and shelter them. prevent them from feeling what they are already feeling. just like they probably did for their parents respectively. (at least mine did, I know as much) so it is hard to break that cycle of misplaced and burdensome emotional “care-taking” and outsourcing of feelings.
this is intensely over the line. I feel so much hostility in your mother’s behaviour (mine too has a lot of aggression and especially towards me when I was growing up). what do you think is up with that?
it also reminds me of a situation on one of the last times my bf and I visited them: I came into the kitchen where my mother was sitting in a bathrobe and curlers in her hair, visibly pissed off and eager to let me have that mood. where she hardly looks up to greet me, doesn’t answer me and when I ask how it’s going just snaps back how do I imagine its going. when she saw the bf crossing the yard (he was not expected that day) she immediately straightened up, the tone of voice completely changed to softness, the entire aggro demeanor fell off her and she was sweet to him. it was astounding tho not out of character for her, just a very clear example of whatever that is.
@OolongJones thanks for the reminder of the book, had that one on my list a long time. glad it helped you!
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I struggle with this everyday, with both parents. My father is addicted to one thing I was using and my mother is addicted to the other. They both have problems… I do have to distance myself and focus on building my mental stability, without them. Theyre grown, have grown kids, not to say theyll never change but they are stubborn in their ways and wont be helpful to me and my sobriety. They do not understand. I do hope they will get there one day, and decide to be sober.
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Hi Lauren, glad you’re here. Glad you’re putting your sobriety first!
Have you seen this thread: Are you affected by a loved one who is an addict? I think you might like it.
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I have a difficult relationship with my mum too so this resonated with me. I’ve had to step away from her a lot at times over the years to protect my own sanity as she can be unpredictable/abusive. She’s also always left me out of things despite me wanting to be close to her and rest of family. I don’t think she likes having another ‘woman’ around, which she has said to me in the past, as she likes to be in control. She doesn’t behave in this way with my brother and sister, but they’re both a lot younger than me. However, when she falls out with my sister she then dotes on me, and I get a sense of hope, as I do still love her dearly, but as soon as they make up I’m discarded again. It hurts a lot… but I’m trying to accept that this is her issue not mine, and focus on the people and things that are good for me.
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I relate with this so much. My mother has decided shes done being a mom and is my sister and I’s friend now since were boyh over 18. So when shes in a falling out with my younger sis shell talk crap about her to me, and well be best friends. But then theyll make up and shell leave me alone for weeks without saying anything because shes busy hanging with my lil sis… no invite either… so weird to me!!
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thank you. it gives me energy to hear that that is what emanates from my post. exactly what I need. 
make that coffee and count me in. motherless daughters on zoom virtual knit circle. 
have a great day, Mel.
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Unfortunately this is not new behavior for her. It is a reoccurring theme of her seeking validation from younger men to soothe her own insecurities. I had repressed the memories of it until this started again with D now. My high school bf she used to convince to sit on her bum and give her back massages. My first bf in college she called her son for many years after we broke up really until only a few years ago when he got busy pursuing a new career and stopped responding to her.
My mum does this nonsense also. Back when I had first started dating D I dragged him around to more family gatherings than I otherwise would a new bf just to get her to be nice.
I am glad you brought this up Rosa! Knowing I would have that kind of separation and healing work happening in my family is a big reason I have so far chosen to not have children. My mum is the oldest of her siblings that was still speaking to my abuelo last year and he pulled the same thing pushing to move up here to be cared for and putting a bunch of stress on us to make arrangements for the move until he just cut off communication and plans fell through this past spring.
I know a lot of my mums own issues stem from her absent father. He would always make promises to her and get close to her only to disappear or become abusive again. I can see her fear of abandonment and the way she pushes people away before they leave - or she clings to the people that are easiest for her to manipulate into staying around. She has a lot of siblings with different mothers and she was able to bond with her own mother over her father’s betrayals.
How I wish she would choose to try therapy and work to release herself from the heartache that plagues her.
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Love this
There’s just so dang much on this thread already that I want to reply to
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Really relate to these! Thank you both for sharing. Luckily my sister and I have become a united front and no longer give in to the shit talking when my mother is back and forth between us but she still tries to pit us against each other. She v much acts more like a friend than a mother — asking to borrow clothes & shoes, asking for way too in depth info about our love lives, etc
Thanks for sharing your rantings Menno! 
I would be very interested to hear more about that difference and your experience/perspective. 
my sister and I have always related differently to our mum even as both of us being daughters. I’m sure there’s a lot more that factors into that as well though.
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Hey… thank you for sharing… I’m sorry to hear that your mum does this too. And yes, that sounds very similar to my situation. I just don’t get how a mother could behave in this way. I hope that one day I can have children and start my own family. I’d treat my children differently… 
Stay strong. Let’s keep in touch 
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My mother guilt trips me, im very emotional a person and cry easily…she sees this as weakness and has always told me from being young how soft/stupid i am…unfortunately i believed her until recently…now i know its not weakness its just my way of dealing with things…i cry it out then i move on…id rather be like this than bottle things up. What helps me with how my mother treats me is ive looked at her life and and tried to decipher how and why she is the way she is and the conclusion ive come to mostly is that shes lacks emotional intelligence and cannot empathise very well with other peoples struggles mainly because shes never really had many hardships to deal with herself, im pleased shes had an easier life than the one i got cos thats just life, i love her but ironically many of my hardships have been because of her but because she didnt experience it she doesnt understand it or want to, i often wonder if at times her treatment of me is also tinged with guilt on her part…i treat my own daughter with the upmost respect as her own person and will never tell her not to cry
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My mom and I have a total dysfunctional relationship that has been discussed in my therapy visits for years. From her gaslighting me, to trying to turn my kids away from me, I still stay in her life like her puppet. Getting sober has made me stronger and I now have boundaries where there weren’t any before.
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Hey, I’m glad you’ve found peace with how you are. I cry when I’m sad too. Better to be sensitive and care than be cold/unfeeling. You sound like a great mum. I hope I can meet someone nice one day and have children of my own. I’d treat mine differently to how my mum treats me too lol! xxx
After a few months of not talking, out of the blue my mum texts me this morning an “I love you.” and it made me feel ill. I didn’t respond - couldn’t bring myself to respond - but it felt wrong to not respond. I wanted to vomit.
I heard a song later today about the sorrow of losing a mother from od and I cried. It was an odd feeling listening to this as if I had already lost my mother a long time ago.
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I came to this thread because I feel like I need to release and let go of some thoughts and feelings about my family that are clogging up my mental space right now. First, though, just want to ask how you’re doing @anon9289869 ? That must’ve been difficult receiving that text and knowing what to do (or not do). 
I too have difficult family relationships. It’s hard because, on the one hand, I have a loving and wonderful family, and I’m so grateful to have them. On the other hand, I feel like the green sheep and they’re a bunch of pink-sheep nutters, set on being miserable and argumentative, and selfish, and absolutely terrible at communicating. Don’t get me wrong, I’m by NO MEANS perfect and I have my fair share of problems and poor personality traits. They, too, put up with me. And that’s what makes it so difficult. It’s like we’re always on a different page (actually…we’re in a different book altogether 
)
Despite the constant frustration, uncomfortable-ness and wishing I could run away, I seem to always be drawn right back. The cognitive dissonance is sht sht fkng sh*t.
I’ve never been good at setting boundaries; I don’t really know how. I always feel bad and like I’m the one in the wrong and always forgive and forget, only to regret it and then follow around the loop. I want some space from my parents. But I rely on them a lot. I think because I’m single, I rely on my family a lot for connection. But, it’s not the type of relationship and connection that is always good for me. I need to let go a little. Give us some space. But I don’t know how to do that it a way that is received well and that I don’t just change my mind or feel bad or feel lonely (mum’s go to is making everyone feel bad). Anyway, I will try. I’m going to give us some space. I’ll try lean on my friendships a little more in the meantime. Hopefully this can ease some anxiety and bring a bit more peace. I’m going to let go of my expectations. If I can.
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Sorry, if I add my thoughts here. Can be flagged. But this strikes me as this was a huuuuuuge point in my last therapy. How will my mother receive it. Can she handle it. Guilt is and was a leading feeling. This might not be your situation, though. But my therapist always said: each time you think about your mother’s feelings you leave yourself, you let go of what is good for you and try to make it well received for your mother 
still, I almost immediately jump into this position. It’s constant work and it involves unpleasant feelings on both sides. Sometimes it feels a bit like what I have read in another thread, being all accepting with myself in my body. This might be true today and I believe it will hold on from now on as it clicked. Well, it’s more of a wave or sigmoid curve.
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