I would advise anyone to not share identifying information on the internet in anonymous forums.
What you say to someone over coffee is not recorded. What you say to someone here can be read by any number of people around the world for years to come.
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Quite a few people here have all of my contact information, etc. I have not had a single stalker. I am thoroughly disappointed by that.
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I think imagining the possibility that someone would record a conversation in a Starbucks is overthinking. Not revealing identifying information on the internet is pretty basic advice, that is so oft repeated that it has become a cliche.
Tbh, I am somehow curiously following the thread, yet I completely forgot what the point is/was. 
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I am sure you shared contact info with individuals–not put in in a forum for all and sundry to see.
I actually worked with someone who did that on a public site. And yes, she had a stalker and identity theft as a result.
You are correct.
Me too!
I was just curious what people meant by fellowship, since many people seemed to be using it as an actual social event. (“I went out for fellowship after a meeting with three guys.”)
I had understood it more like the traditional sense of a metaphoric feeling of belonging.
But that proved inconclusive. For some it was indeed about being part of a group without any social interaction implied.
And for others it seemed to be social.
That’s pretty much the same as AA, as I learned it. Even within the program, it’s considered bad form to bring up anything someone else shares at a meeting around anyone who wasn’t there. “Who you see here, what you hear here, let it stay here.” Very much in line with, you only have one story to tell and that’s your own.
I socialize with some outside the rooms. Some folks know we’re in the program, some don’t. It’s trusted that it’s up to us as individuals to do with our anonymity what we will, and we make no assumptions about others. Consent, as you said.
The default line with ‘normies’ when meeting program folks is usually something like, “We met through a mutual friend.”
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To me fellowship is just community. The sense that it’s a “we” program.
For some, they keep it strictly in the rooms. For others, it’s extended to coffee after or other socializing outside the rooms and they’ll use words like “fellowshiping” to specifically mean that. Certainly groups I’m in will have coffee or barbecues or a monthly “birthday” celebration together outside the rooms with the literal fellowship (group of AA’s) though.
I think it’s really just finding mutual support, strength, maybe even a bit of laughter through time together. Wherever it is.
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To me fellowship is synonymous with brotherhood.
It’s the bond veterans, motor cycle club members, and pilots (just to name a few) have with each other.
When meeting a stranger who is a member of the fellowship, ones guard is let down and trust is almost automatically given.
As it relates to the AA fellowship, anyone who has the desire to stop drinking and needs help doing so is a fellow. When I meet a stranger who is in AA I trust and respect them almost immediately.
Just my two or three cents.
Keep it up!
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Thank you. Other than my old sponsors I do not really know anyone in the program. And to be honest, I know so little about them that if they ever changed their phone numbers, I would never be able to find them.
I think I am feeling angry that I was always told that people who had relationships like you describe were not really doing the program. It sounds really great to have what you have.
What you have sounds great. For me, when I find out someone is in the program, my guard goes up. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells since I tend to step in it. (Like the “tools of the program moment” above.)
For me the difference is that motor cycle club members and pilots, do not feel like they have to confront each other all the time. I just do not know how to get beyond that. I probably should be thicker skinned, but it takes time and trust for me to get to that point. I wish I were like you and could just move immediately to trust.
For me, I think it would be better to find people I can just talk to who won’t measure what I say against a standard of “good recovery.” I make a lot of mistakes, so there will always be a lot to criticize me for. The program may not be the place for those kind of relationships.
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Think that’s why I really jive with the trust part of it. Folks in recovery know what we’ve been through. Cuz they’ve been there too. I don’t generally feel judged in recovery circles. (Usually. 
) Maybe expressions of concern as we also know the ways we fool ourselves, but not judged.
And might say, there’s some distinction between “relationshipping” and “fellowshipping.” Fellowship drops any connotation of romantic involvement, which is a whole other topic but usually discouraged. I wonder which one they meant.
Certainly pursuing romantic stuff when people are seeking a place to be emotionally honest and recover isn’t cool. That’s quadruple true for anyone just starting out.
But finding fellowship, staying out of isolation, has certainly been beneficial to my recovery. (Usually! 
)
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I do not think I have ever heard anyone say “relationshipping.” I agree that it is awkward for the reasons you say.
I was never good at confronting people on recovery issues, so I never got very far in the program. Maybe i need to look for other “12-step failures” since the confrontations are such an issue for me.
The isolation you can feel in the program was a big problem for me. I think one reason I stopped relapsing when I left was that I felt much less isolated. The loneliness you feel in meetings can get you down. Remote meetings feel a lot less lonely, and engender a lot less anxiety.
Not sure if I can even do this when we go back to f2f.
Turning over the discussion, this picture really does highlight “fellowship.” It’s a very special kind of relationship. Doesn’t really matter where or who.
To me, it’s people bound together by a common purpose. One that commands a shared respect that transcends our personal interest in what’s going on. One that begets community.
I’ve almost always had that overriding sense in meetings (and here for that matter), and from most I’ve met there as well.
I like what you describe, but the hierarchical nature of the program works against that sense of mutual respect. I think people learn best by working together toward a common goal–even if one is the teacher and more experienced person and the other the pupil or beginner. Mutual respect is key for this.
I think though the moment one person has to cede control, you cannot have that mutual respect.
I get the sense that some people have such relationships in the program. But the first step is so often or usually interpreted to mean that one allows a sponsor to fix the unmanageability of one’s life --and that creates a strong imbalance.
Now that I have more clean time than most prospective sponsors, I can insist on getting one who will butt out. But I think even a person still struggling should be allowed that control as a matter of course–rather than something given by an exceptionally easy-going sponsor.
I was locked out of the steps for so long because I would not let sponsors make life-choices for me. (It was not strength on my part—I just could not afford to do what was asked.) I know others with similar experience. Mutual respect does not seem to be part of that equation.
This is probably what is meant by being argumentative. But I really just mean to share my experience. Yours is clearly different. I am not saying it is wrong—in fact I think your experience should be what the program aims for.
Being honest, I’m genuinely concerned you have these impressions of the program, and of sponsorship. They’re antithetical to the Traditions provided as guidance to keep the program about what we all there for: Stayin’ sober.
Principles before personalities!
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I do not subscribe to them, and I think they are antithetical to sobriety.
And yes, I do think the sponsorship system is ripe for abuse. And the two tier system it fosters is not good for recovery, in my opinion.
I have enough time now, that I can reject the negative parts. But in early recovery… I think what is really needed is someone to explain the program and help someone deal with the urges and changes that happen. I do not know if they need a sponsor.
What do you mean by abuse? I’ve never viewed it as a hierarchy, and actually, newcomers are the most important person at any meeting. In fact, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard ppl with years back to back thank the newer members for sharing their experiences and interpretations of events/ literature because we all learn from each other. I couldn’t imagine working through a set of steps without a sponsor. If you’re being honest in your step work, feelings can become incredibly heavy and many people feel shame or guilt. Uncomfortable feelings are a trigger for many addicts. Also, it is assumed, that a sponsor (who has more clean time than you and has worked the steps) is a good person to call when you are craving, or upset, or unsure about making a decision, step work, etc. I think it’s unreasonable to assume that there would be some sort of abuse of power between sponsor and sponsee. A sponsor and the fellowship in general are so much more than just showing a “newcomer” how the program works.
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By abuse I mean requiring sponsees to do household tasks, asking sponsees to leave their employment to take a “humble job,” asking them to walk to meetings rather than drive (regardless of their health), asking them to try to buy a home rather than rent, etc. These an any other “test of willingness” are an abuse of power.
I think you are right that the feelings that come up in recovery can be a trigger. Yet, most sponsors ask sponsees not to speak to them when triggered. How many sponsors are willing to talk to as sponsee who is having a craving? I know in this forum, many people say their sponsors were there for them at such times. But I wonder how common that is. I suspect that people with such good sponsors stick with the program and post here. Most of us with the ordinary run of sponsors walk away.
I think you last sentence indicates that somehow a groups is above showing how the program works. Maybe that is okay now with the internet making more information available. But why not explain the program to the newcomer? I lost so many sponsors because I did not know that sponsors do not call sponsees (and I thought they were annoyed with me calling because they never called in return). Why not explain step actions? Or how to honor anonymity? Or all the little rules? It feels like the reason they are not explained and questions are not answered is so that members get to have a rage when the rule is not followed.
The internet has helped this a lot. But it should never have been an issue int he first place.
How is it not a hierarchy when people with seniority get to tell those without what to do? You may call it suggestions, but not following them have consequences. I was financially unable to follow all the “suggestions” that my sponsors made. But looking back I am glad that I could not.