I would appreciate if I could get your views/thoughts on this?

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I just wanted to get your thoughts and views on something. It’s been keeping me up a few nights this past week and I just can’t settle down after this. My wife says I’m overreacting to all this, but I don’t know. I’m not sure anymore.

Back in December, I was out running errands, and when I came home, my wife was on the phone (normally she has it on speaker), but this time it wasn’t. She wasn’t really trying to hide anything from me, or atleast I didn’t perceive that to be the case. I was only home for 5 minutes, and had to run back out. She went upstairs with her call (that’s fair as sometimes we need to talk in quiet). I had to leave the house again for some groceries and I did.

Anyways, she was chatting with one of her male work colleagues. This is around 7pm in the evening. The phone call lasted for about an hour. I asked her later that evening who it was and she seemed to hesitate for a second but was forth coming and noted that it was her male work friend, and that he had called her. I asked about the call and she noted he was simply venting to her about other colleagues. It was more of a venting session than anything else she said. She also noted that if she knew he was simply going to vent, she wouldn’t have answered his phone call.

I told her just to communicate with me and be honest and that I did feel a little hurt by this. We had a little argument over this. She said because it made me feel uncomfortable that she wouldn’t do it again.

Fast forward a few months later, she had another 1 hour call in the evening on a week night – she had called him this time (it happened to start a few minutes after I left for basketball with my son, and just so happened to end exactly when we got home). Then this past week, they had another call. Again, this time she called out to him. This call started exactly around the time I left for my evening shift and I also the kids were out of the house. This call lasted about 2 hours.
So I start getting suspicious as she’s having the calls with him when I’m not home.

A couple of days later I asked her if she had called him ever again after we had chatted back in December and she said she did not after she realized I was feeling uncomfortable about this. She flat out lied to my face and said no she has never talked to him on the phone again. I knew this was not true, as our phone call records are joint. I asked her right then to see her phone, to which she obliged. Going through her call history, I realized she had deleted these two long calls. They weren’t in her call history. I asked her again to be honest, and again she said no, she does not remember calling him (keep in mind the recent call was just a day before I asked her). Meaning she deleted these calls. I also checked her messages, and it also appeared she had deleted a few messages between them. I was able to see the message history as it backs up on ICloud and the stuff she deleted didn’t really seem suspicious, just them texting about work back and forth.

So I told her that she is lying to me and I have access to the history of the calls through the log. Then finally she came clean and said yes they had chatted and that the reason she hid it from me is because I had felt uncomfortable a few months earlier and we had a fight over it. So she said she didn’t want me to know again and get upset over it. She said she didn’t do anything wrong that it was strictly talking about work. She said she hid it because I felt hurt last time and that she really hasn’t even done anything wrong with all this.

Also to note that he’s not married and only a few years older than my wife and I. She also knows (as she’s mentioned it a couple of times to me) that he’s doing well financially (a little better than us).
Am I over controlling and in the wrong here?

I just fail to see who an evening call (when it’s prime time for us spending time together and with our kids) can strictly be about work and it lasts over an hour. I’m just having a hard time with all this. I feel like they are emotionally connecting, and it might start with work, but with that amount of time, that the call can easily drift off into personal stuff being discussed.

I don’t know.

Isn’t this how emotional connections start? Chatting with someone a few times over an hour seems to me like they are really good friends and are able to confide in one another. That they have built that trust.

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I can feel how distressing this is for you, how angry and jealous you are about this. It is a hard space to be in.

I can only speak from my experience. You will have to gather input from other people in recovery and then focus your attention and accountability on what you can control.

The first and most important thing for me is that I am aware of, and accountable and responsible only for my own feelings and thoughts, and that any ideas I may have about other people’s feelings or thoughts are speculation at best. People’s inner worlds are their own inner worlds and they transmit them through the muddy medium of their language and behaviour. Even on the best of days, with the clearest communication, I have only a muddy view of another person’s inner world. Trying to declare that I know what is going on in another person’s mind or heart is a fool’s errand, whether I admit that to myself in the moment or not.

What I do know, when I feel jealousy, is that I have neglected some important emotional or psychological task - something I needed to do, to maintain a vibrant space where people feel content - and that until I dig deep into my own dysfunctional actions and behaviours, and begin the long and productive road of making changes in myself, any changes in the world around me will be superficial and temporary at best.

It is like looking over the fence at the neighbour’s yard and being jealous of the lush garden. The jealousy is a symptom of my own neglect. The solution is to face my neglect and, in consultation with other people who have faced similar neglect, to make changes in myself, so the garden in my yard is one where I feel content and useful. (Note that this doesn’t mean trying to replicate the neighbour’s yard. It means taking stock of my yard and what healthy steps I can take to make it a welcoming, healthy space.)

Have you been to an SA meeting yet?

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You can’t keep your wife from having work friends. You can only share your feelings w her.

“Confronting” her while you already know “what she did” cos you check the logs and records is deceptive and shows how little faith you have in her. If I was her, I’d feel controlled as fuck and pissed. And it would probably make me wanna chat w my friends about it. Same w messages. That’s not trusting spouses behaviour.

Work on your insecurity, your marriage, and be a good husband. That’s all you can do.

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Tough spot. I would be upset but there isn’t much you can really do about it. Try not to be jealous and let go of the situation because anything you do is going to be harmful other than trusting her. That’s the next right thing to do is trust her. But the alpha male in me would be upset so I can empathize. Don’t bring past experiences into this situation though man.

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From what you’re saying, there’s a huge lack of trust going on between you and your wife. I’ve never gone through my husband’s phone and he’s never been through mine. We just don’t do that. Ever.

Are you overreacting? I don’t know, honestly. A small argument wouldn’t normally be a reason for your wife to make sure you’re not around when talking to her coworker. But if the argument only ended when she promised not to do it again, then… I have to wonder how small it was.

Our partners can’t be everything to us at all times and it’s unfair when we expect them to. She’s probably comfortable chatting about work things with someone who understands that specific environment. It’s not that big a deal, really. Or at least it shouldn’t be.

The way you’re obsessively checking phone records and messages is far from healthy. Does she check yours as well? Are you two getting any sort of counselling or help with this lack of trust?

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As others already have pointed out this sounds like a substantial trust issue. I would consider getting outside help / counseling on that.

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From a former liar

  1. Shes lying to your face and deleting records is a sign of a guilty conscience.
  2. The timing of the calls while your away seems sneaky
  3. I think you need to set a clear boundry with her. She needs to tell this work colleague that her husband isnt comfortable with all the after hour calls. So she ask to keep work to work hours
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Thank you very much Matt for your feedback and perspective. I appreciate it.

I agree that it is so hard to know what is going on in another person’s mind or heart. It is a fool’s errand to try and guess, but I just find myself trying to find out what she is actually feeling.

It is very distressing for me. We’ve been married such a long time, and I shouldn’t be jealous. It’s just very hard and difficult.

You are right that I simply need to just control what I can control. What is in my control. Other things or other’s actions are not in my control. I have likely neglected a part of my garden to feel this way. I can’t force someone to stay in my garden and admire it, but I just need to continue to work on myself and put myself first through all this and just focus on my sobriety.

I like what you say it doesn’t mean to try and replicate my neighbour’s yard. In this case, I was telling myself maybe I should replicate my wife’s behaviour and start lying to her over trivial things. I know that won’t help the relationship at all, and she’ll be hurt, but I just feel like maybe I should tell small lies here and there if it’s acceptable to do on her end.

I don’t know, I just need to give all this some more thought.

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Thank you so much and yes that’s why I put this out here to get an honest perspective/opinion from a female. You are right that I can’t keep her from having friends. It’s just that I did share with her last time that I don’t think evening conversations with a work colleague for an hour is something that’s mandatory or only related to work. Those conversations to me for that long usually tend to go into personal stuff. Or maybe I’m overthinking this all. I don’t know.

Thank you for sharing that she probably does feel controlled through all this. Thank you for being honest.

I’m going to just work on myself. I feel like I’m a little upset about this behaviour and I did share it with her last time. I just kinda feel a little lost.

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Yes, this is what I truly believe. I just need to try and let go of this all.
It’s kind of late now as I’ve already brought it up and was very upset about the whole thing, but I just need to get past this.

It’s just that if our marriage was very secure, I probably wouldn’t feel this way. But she has said pretty hurtful things to me as of late that brings this all into another light and perspective. I don’t know.

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I agree on the lack of trust part. Thank you for your feedback.
There is a huge lack of trust here. I never felt the need to ever do it before, but this new friend of hers (male friend) is the reason why I’m zoning in now. It’s strange.

I’ll admit, it wasn’t a small argument back in December. I was pretty vocal and upset about it all and just told her that I don’t think it’s normal to talk to people of the opposite sex (even if it is work friends). It wasn’t exactly small, but the conversation didn’t end because she said she wouldn’t talk to him again like this in the evening (this was something she had initially said on her own and said things like had she known the call would just be about him venting, she wouldn’t have picked up). She kind of said that all on her own. I don’t know.

The more I think about it, you are right that she’s probably more comfortable chatting about work things with someone who understands that specific environment.

The way I’m obsessively thinking over this and checking records, I do agree is obviously very wrong on my part. It’s just that I feel now that the trust is completely gone as she wasn’t being honest with me. She said she wouldn’t do it again. Definitely lack of trust.
She’s also made other remarks about him (how he is unmarried, and he’s doing well financially, etc.). It’s all just adding up now when I put all the comments/remarks together. I don’t know. Maybe it’s nothing.

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I did recommend counseling as I told her back in December that I don’t know when was the last time her and I had a one hour decent conversation. Either in person or on the phone. I told her that she’s investing that energy elsewhere. Definitely a trust issue. I know I can’t control her, but I feel like she’s not investing into “us”. The kids we do everything for and she’s an amazing mother, but I don’t know anymore.

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Don’t deny your feelings. You are feeling jealous. That is what this feeling is. Identify it, label it, recognize it, and face it, so that you can gain experience recognizing how that emotion reacts chemically with the other elements that make up your composition. This is not the first time you’ve felt jealous in your life and it won’t be the last.

Whether you should or shouldn’t be feeling jealous is not a helpful question here. (What I mean is that dwelling on that question is not of immediate assistance to you, in terms of making this right.) The helpful question is what are you going to do about it (hint: lying to her or anything else which involves revenge or manipulation is not what you are going to do).

Now that you know you will do nothing that is any type of direct or indirect lying or manipulation, and also knowing that the origin and the solution to this problem are both inside you, what is the next small step you have to take?

It was your thinking, starting in and stewing in you, that created this - do you really need to stew in that any more?

I notice you didn’t answer my question about whether you’ve been to a meeting yet.

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I agree with @Cjp.
Been there, done that.

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If shes talking about work etc with him and just has a genuine friendship and isn’t discussing your personal issues or your marriage then it maybe something that continues to happen.

Theres a big difference between deleting because she doesn’t want the conflict with you and deleting because shes hiding something.

At the end of the day you can’t control what she does, if shes cheating physically or emotionally she will do it anyway if she really wants to and then you know she’s not all in in the marriage. Arguing and fighting won’t change anything.

Maybe all you can do is be honest, and ask her to be honest, give her a few boundaries that would help you feel more secure…ask her what more you can do to be there for her and then trust her.

You need to talk to her…

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It’s not mandatory - but are you in charge of her? Are you her employer to say what’s appropriate for her work time and what not?

You’re her husband and your job is to be your wife’s equal and trusted confidante. That means you share your feelings w her as emotionally available as you can and if you’re worried she doesn’t love you enough not to cheat you share that and you figure out a way to strengthen your love and your marriage. You don’t attempt to control. I think we can all sympathise w your fears, I’ve certainly been there. But by acting like her superior, controlling and checking records, you’re just re-enforcing everything that you’re already afraid of plus it’s shitty behaviour.

Address your fears!! You, not your wife!

To the peeps here going off on the wife: we don’t know what she’s doing and what her situation is. Homie here has asked for advice on his side, emotionally and behaviour wise.

Kudos for putting yourself out there, seeking advice. Good luck!

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The other thing I forgot to add is that she has been very possessive of her phone over the past few years. Possessive as in taking her phone everywhere in the house.

She would shower. It would go into the bathroom drawer. In the kitchen while cooking it would go into the drawer and closed.

She sat down anywhere it would be with her. If she ever didn’t have it on her she would be very quick to notice and go looking for it.

I don’t know.

Then in December when we had our argument, I also told her this in terms of what I noticed. She said she didn’t know that was happening and now that I’ve pointed it out she says it will different.
Good thing is that past few months she has been less possessive of it. So that’s a positive thing I think.
But now with me finding out she’s deleting calls and some messages, so I don’t know anymore.

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Thank you for this.

Yes she did lie to my face. Her justification of it was because she knew I would get upset if she told the truth and that we would get into another argument and she didn’t want that.
She said it’s not wrong what she’s doing in terms of having a conversation with her male colleague. She did agree that it was wrong of her to lie to me about it when asked.
That made me feel a little better.

The calls were definitely planned when I wasn’t home and the reason for that again goes to point number 1 above where she didn’t want me to know because she said I would get upset again for no reason.

Yeah I considered asking her to tell him that I’m not comfortable with the calls but I figure that might set him off and he might tell her no it’s no big deal. Your husband is blowing it out of proportion. I don’t want to come across as her being married to someone who is so controlling.
I just want honesty.

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Hi Matt, thanks again. Just out right now and I’ll respond in more detail later, but yes to the question about attending the SA meetings.

I’ve been to quiet a few in the past few months. Thank you

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I may share some personal experience, please take what is helpful and leave the rest.

First, if my exhusband or anybody would go through my phone, the fires of hell would be a warm breeze compared to what happens. I never was interested in “controlling” my partner(s) and they would better not try to do such to me. My trust would be irrepairably crashed. And I would ask who the fuck they think they are. Of course I did not share everything, simply because it was none of their business, not because I had something to hide or cheated.

I can feel with you, there are clearly issues and signs that make you feel insecure about the stability of your marriage (been there, felt that). There for sure are trust issues. Lying and not sharing everything are two very different pair of shoes, so are a need for ME time alone (to do whatever) and deliberately avoiding my partner noticing something.

Controlling, investigative behaviour will lead you nowhere. It hurts both of you, adds up to trust issues and confronting with facts induces a learning curve: Next time hide better.

Communication is key, but when you are the only one putting honest effort in bettering the situation, working on yourself and expressing your feelings - then let it be, you can’t solve trust problems alone, it needs both (been there, done that).

Maybe have a look on the field of codependency, it helped me to understand myself better and find a good way (in my case without my drinking, loveless ex).
Maybe go to therapy alone when she refuses couple counselling. When one part changes, the whole system changes over time. Invest in yourself, not only in your marriage.

Sending you kindness, hugs and restful vibes, going through such emotional turmoil is straining. :sunflower:

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