Hi @Jovvaan , welcome to Talking Sober! Thanks for posting and I hope this place can be as supportive to you as it has been to me in retaining my sobriety and sanity over the last couple of years.
My story regarding my sexuality and its relationship to my addictions can be found (in part) higher up in this thread. It has quite an overlap with @liminal.rehab (thanks for sharing DJ) as a matter of fact. As well as loads of differences of course .
As a moderator I decided to merge your post with this thread in an attempt to keep the forum as transparent and accessible as possible. Hoping to read more from you friend.
That’s one huge difference between us DJ: I kept my sexuality hidden for a long time, and all I wanted to be was 'normal" -normal as I and Dutch society perceived it back then- heterosexual, “huisje boompje beestje” sort of meaning a house, a dog and a family. Due to earlier abuse, due to the way my own particular sexualtiy developed, and how I lived that sexuality, my social circle always was and still is heterosexual, also after I came out. And I still have big problems connecting sexuality to intimacy. Work in progress right.
Yea, when I was living in New York, most of my friends were heterosexual and I always tried to pass myself off as a “respectable” gay (I usually use the word faggot here but I understand that it’s triggering for some people—I like how messy and confrontational it is). I was always, however, unapologetic about how I visually presented and I mixed a lot masculine and feminine elements to achieve the look that I wanted (and I am very good and stylish at it too!)
I’m grateful and very privileged to have been provided a safe space to experiment with my gender and sartorial presentation but now, I’m a bit more understated in my day to day. I have some friends who are very concerned with appearing heterosexual and I understand why—it’s a lot easier to conduct your daily business and errands when you are perceived as a straight man.
I also feel like it’s more permissible for young straight men in big metropolitan areas to play with their gender presentation these days. I work in the arts and a lot of the people I know work in the arts and fashion industry so it’s way more acceptable for us to subvert social and cultural norms and we are professionally and socially rewarded for it. However, the downside of this is an unflinching loyalty to unrealistic beauty and aesthetic values. Everyone is out to be the most beautiful and attractive person out there
Did you grow up in Amsterdam? I had some work there last summer and I felt that there was a thriving queer community there. Was that always the case?
I was born in Amsterdam and lived here all my life. I grew up in a time the queer community developed into a visible and indeed thriving part of local culture. With ups and downs existing until today. Amsterdam has its own pride week in August, which is a great week for queer culture and queer visibility here. And the only time in the year I personally feel part of that community.
Otherwise I never felt part of the queer community. Again, has to do with my personality, my upbringing, abuse, me starting smoking weed at 13, part of which I financed with being involved in prostitution from my 14th till my 18th or so which was another reason to be very secretive about my sexuality, the neighbourhood boys I grew up with who boasted about bashing and robbing the cruising gay men in the park I grew up next to.
I feel you on the faggot bit. And I guess my dress sense always been a bit understated, as my whole presence on this planet has been. Not sure what would have happened had my development been different. And not sure what the next years will bring, as my life is definitely changing, very slowly, since I’ve gotten sober after 40 years of drug and booze abuse.
I loved reading your story first thing this morning. Thank you for sharing. I know there are many people who are closeted and remain there because of their culture. I am encouraged by your willingness to live your authentic life, and your bravery to tell about it. I hope it reaches those in need!
Welcome! I’m pleased to see this has become a master thread. Here you can read many, many stories about how addiction uniquely impacts the LGBTQ+ population. Thank you for being here!
Both outcomes are absolutely plausible! For some people sexuality is fluid, for others it is more concrete.
It is completely normal for your attraction to wax and wane one way or the other. I followed a common progression myself, even though I knew since the age of nine that I loved women. I came out as bisexual when I was teen with a 90/10 predominant attraction toward women, but still ended up with men for a few years due to religious and familial oppression. Even went so far as to have a child, and stayed until I couldn’t tolerate my own heartbreak one second longer. Then I fractured my family dynamic by telling my truth, and my only regret is that I had not done it sooner. I ultimately came out as a polyamarous lesbian. Now I am married to my monogamous wife.
Ugh, the ignorant man’s favorite playbook since time immemorial—violence and fear. And it does a pretty good job of keeping us from each other. I think it’s why so many gay men I know spend so much time in the gym obsessing over strength and muscle.
Sex work is wild, I was never cut out for it even when I considered doing it. I’m too icy (figuratively and literally, I’m anemic so my body is cold to the touch) and bossy but maybe that means I could be good at dominating, hahaha
Well, you’re well on your way now! Thank you for sharing with me and I look forward to seeing you prosper and grow increasingly authentic!
BTW, I’ll be in Berlin in a month time from now for a short holiday. If you’re interested and in town it might be nice to meet up for a cup of coffee or something.
There’s this exceptionally beautiful boy at the gym—tall, ginger, pale, lean with a pouty face. I can tell that he’s queer or sensitive. He seems to keep to himself, make himself unassuming and it breaks my heart to see him dimming his light. I can tell that he’s young and is figuring his life out but I think he deserves to carry himself with the confidence of knowing that his gifts are rare and he shouldn’t try to humble himself in a world that shames him.
Hmmmm, thank you so much for this. Reading this, I’m catching myself projecting and that’s dangerous!
However, this is an assumption I made today after catching him looking at me several times over the past two months and when I would look back, he would look away.
His habits also communicate to me that he is sensitive or at least quiet and very self aware—I’m actually quite observant and body language rarely lies. A by product of my hyper vigilance.
I also saw him with someone who presented as a part of the community—whether they’re an ally or just queer, I don’t know. I also live in a very queer area of my city so with all of these factors, I could make an educated guess.
Yes that is fair and it’s not always appropriate to read someone, especially in the gym because that’s not really a safe space to do that. I had to learn that and now I’m watching other baby queers learn that.
This impulse comes from a place where I want to save someone and that’s not really my role or my job which is why I haven’t approached this person because they’ve made it clear they want to be left alone—everyone has their own adventure. I’m just lamenting that this person shouldn’t feel the need to dim his light. It’s the worse thing someone can do when they are surrounded by people who are insecure and envious.
Anyways, this is terribly inappropriate to continue talking about this person and I’m going to stop talking about this now.
It’s not just National Coming Out Day, it’s World Wide Coming Out Day! Which doesn’t say everybody in the closet has to come out today. The idea is to make everybody aware of the fact that that are many people still in there, and hopes to push everybody in creating a welcoming, non-judgemental and accepting environment in which it is safe to do so.
My coming out to my parents at around my 30th was so-so. My mum was ecstatic, but more because I shared something personal with her than anything else. My dad’s reaction was to voice his disappointment at not seeing any grandchildren coming his way (gay parenting was not happening here back then). Anyway, happy Coming Out Day all!
Happy coming out day. I’m very happy with my lovely wife, it’s our 6th wedding anniversary tomorrow we have been together forever though, well at least 13 years or more.
My background was hard and something I’m still working on. No TRUE acceptance from some family, just superficial. A lot of water under the bridge.
Anyway, everyone should feel safe to give as much or AS LITTLE as they want and to be loved.
My brother came out of the closet at the age of 25. I vividly see the scene when he told them. I was sitting aside somewhere. Gives me now the feeling that I then already wasn’t really part of the family. My mothers respons was that she asked whether we should move out of the neighborhood due to this. This remark went right away to my gut, I was like what the f@ck happens here. I discussed this sometimes also while in treatment, since I just can’t grasp it. They were like, but it’s fine now. When I said nobody ever talked to me about this and what such a remark did to me, they keep silent. They just thought I would be fine without any love or connection with them, damn briljant it went.
Everyone deserves a safe environment to come out of the closet
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we have been together forever though, well at least 13 years or more.