Everything Terry Pratchett is gold. Departed way too early.
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8 months 7 days: one of the things I love about sobriety without god is that I am responsible for everything that takes place in this journey. It may be harder at first to rely on nothing but yourself but as time goes on it’s so rewarding to look back on. I also love that I am so aware of every minute change in my brain as it heals.
I have noticed that my brain has not healed all at once. Different parts of my brain are recovering at different times which analytically makes sense. How could it all heal at the same time?
Enjoy being proud of yourselves for being your own power in sobriety today all.
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@Mno I would also agree that the scientific method is a really great way to sift through information to find what is true and what is dross. That being said, for me, I can’t say that I “believe” in science because, with science, either something is true, and the data exists to back it up while “showing it’s work” and being open to the possibility that the result is wrong, or that data/proof doesn’t exist. No belief on my part is needed.
I understand what you are saying about believing that the method is the best way to get information, but I think too many people are ready to just believe whatever “scientists” say without looking at the data themselves. This might as well be a religion unto itself where scientists are the new priests and we are to believe and accept what is given us.
I like how you said that curious people in the pursuit of knowledge aren’t afraid to be wrong. That’s precicely it and I agree 100%. I think that’s why sometimes it rubs me wrong when some people (not talking about you) tell me to just “believe the science” on whatever topic, but when I ask for specifics of why the person thinks that way, they can’t tell me and then tend to get defensive and can’t stand the idea that they’re wrong. It’s too much like another religion to me. Like the scientific idea of seeking and discovery, even trying to prove yourself wrong to see if your idea holds up, has disappeared.
Comments about astrology and science under expandable arrow because it is long and slightly off topic
You, my friend, are talking to the right astrologer. 
There are a lot of people who say “astrology is a science”, but most of those people don’t actually know what they’re talking about. “Astrology” as most people think of it, is absolutely not a science. When newspapers print out people’s “horoscope”, that’s sun sign astrology for entertainment. When I do a natal chart reading for someone that involves the understanding of math, psychology, and archatypes along with the ability to connect dots. An astrologer that looks at mundain astrology (meaning looking at world events), will need to understand a different set of enterpretations that connect with geo-political/economic/etc., ideas.
But underneath all of that is where the “science” lies. There is a lot of math and science. It’s interesting that you mention the tides of the moon, because all of the other planets do have an effect on tides, but to a much smaller degree. In a nutshell (or else I would be writing 10 times this), it comes down to planetary frequency, cycles per second (cps), etc.
Atoms vibrate, and as such all things actually are vibrating. Music from a piano or a guitar creates vibrations we can actually hear. So someone plays an A at 440Hz (440 cps), and we can hear that. We can even feel that sometimes if you touch a piano or a guitar when a note is played. The lowest key on the piano vibrates at 27.5Hz. The human ear can’t hear anything less than 20cps.
Well, planets give off a extremely low frequencies–acoustic and electromagnetic waves. There’s just no way that we would be able to hear, naturally, cycles that are 88 days per cycle or even 248 years per cycle. This “music”, so to speak, gets sent out into the universe, along with each planet’s own unique gravitational push and pull. In fact, there are tides on the sun as well as on the earth! Each planet is different. In the 1950s, it was found that Jupiter goes through periods where he emits powerful EMF waves.
The planets interact in these ways with each other as well. In the late 40s / early 50s, an engineer who worked for RCA Communications Inc. (John Henry Nelson) studied magnetic storms and other types of solar interference because it interfered with messages getting where they needed to go.
Nelson found that when certain planets were at certain mathematical angles, through observation over time, they would know with a high (but not perfect) accuracy whether they’d have “good” days or “bad” days with magnetic storms on earth. Generally a 120 or 60 degree angle would bring good days, and 90 or 180 would be unfavorable.
This is the “science” that underlies what a lot of people understand as “astrology”. We are mostly water and thus these frequencies and gravitational pulls affect us in a variety of ways. When I look at a natal chart (a map of the sky when someone is born, which would show which frequencies may have “imprinted” on the new born baby) or current transits to someone’s natal chart, I look at a lot of mathematical angles, which we have names for: conjunction ( 0 degrees), sextile (60 ), Trine (120 ), square (90 ), opposition (180), and there are still more mathematical angles that I will look at, which can give little bits of information. The astrologer has to take all that information, interpret it, and then see how it’s applying in the person’s life. That part isn’t science.
If any of this is of interest to you and you want to know more, there is a book called “The Cycles of Heaven” by Guy Lyon Playfair and Scott Hill that talks about some of this, though the book has a lot of other interesting things in it. It was released in the 70s, so some information is outdated. It’s still a great book though. It appeals to my logical side of wanting to know how and why things work.
Considering what you said about Stephen Fry’s show, you might like the book. Also Stephen Fry is amazing.
I really admire and respect how you work every day to understand yourself and your place in the world. I think too many people don’t really care about any of that, or they think that their religion tells them who/what they are and what their path should be. Too many people are afraid to be wrong, especially when it’s tied into their identity. Try telling a deeply religious person that something they believe is wrong and they will fight tooth and nail against it, even if you can give them evidence to the contrary. This can apply to any endocronated group. Or sometimes people think they should know who they are and their purpose because they’re a certain age, but you walk your own path and you don’t care about all of that. It’s really great.
@Fury Aww, well thank you! It’s nice to hear that my long winded posts are appreciated. I’m glad you think my forum name fits. You might also enjoy the book I recommended to @Mno , or at least the first part were it talks about how Kepler found that the universe was made of mathematics and music.
Religions seem to focus too much on emotion and not enough on the “logic” and “facts” that the scientific method can deliver. I admit, I worry a little about things swinging too far left-brained and entering a time where we have “religions” that are very little emotion and all logic. Somewhere there needs to be a balance, I think. But religion–and, indeed, perhaps the notion of “God” itself–relies on “faith” and “feeling the spirit”. Don’t look for proof; just believe.
@SassyRocks Stardust, energy, frequency… Yes, I believe this too. From all the research, study, and personal thought, I’ve come to this conclusion:
We are all music.
What is music but a frequency. We can hear it. We can even feel it. If all is frequency, and all frequency has an audio level (whether the human ear can hear it or not), then everything is music. And within this, I think and feel that I have the ability to make whatever song I wish out of my life.
This is where the traditional idea of “God” simply has no place in my life. Such a thing seems like it puts limits on my life–who I can be, what I can do, etc. That idea of “God” itself seems so limiting! The “great” and “most holy” being in all of creation is that?!? With all the wonder and beauty that we see in the unknown above us, and that is the apex of everything?
I can’t/don’t accept that. And, of course, neither do others which is why this thread exists.
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I was abused at the hands of religion as a child and was also abused in the name of supporting a sibling through a 12 step process at age 11.
I need resources but AA and god are out. Thanks for sharing.
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While basically I agree with you, to me there is some duality in that. For one thing: to me to believe doesn’t equal blind faith. For me to believe means to trust. I believe in the scientific method (not in science per se) which to me (over)simplified means the questioning of everything there is to question and the rigorous research, using tested and testable methods, of everything there is to research.
I like to look at the data myself. And I do have some grasp of how to do that too, having spent four years in nursing school and each of those years following a thorough course in Evidence Based Practise, where I learned how to read and rate scientific research.
So when somebody here -as happened recently- cries that it’s a well known fact the only way to remain sober is to have a higher power, I can use what I learned, do some research, and find out that what this person is saying is not true. And tell what I believe (yes) instead and back that up with some trustworthy scientific research .
On the other hand: let me take global climate change as an example. I have not verified much (if any tbh) research concerning that myself. But as 98% of climate scientists agree with each other it is happening, and I can see examples happening everywhere, I trust in the common knowledge of science and the scientific methods used that they are right. I’m willing to do some research myself when I’m directly challenged on the subject, but I haven’t been yet. And there are only 24 hours in a day.
And yet another point to make: doing you own research is fine, but you do have to know what you’re researching and what is good research and what is not. Otherwise you run the risk to watch two YouTube videos, claiming you’ve done your own research and now know for a fact the earth is flat and we are ruled by lizard people. Not at all saying that that is what you do by the way friend. Just some thoughts your remarks brought up in me.
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Welcome to the forum Lax. I hope you’ll find some of the support you’re looking for here. This place has been instrumental for me in navigating my way through sobriety. It gave me togetherness, when alone I couldn’t do it. Together we’re strong. I’m glad you’re here.
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Hello folks! I transitioned from agnostic to atheist about 9 or 10 years ago. I hope this doesn’t sound arrogant, but I was fortunate enough to not need AA or counseling to help me get sober. However I did participate in them voluntarily as sources to keep me on track just incase I started slipping. AA was only 3 sessions. I was simply “fed up.” After my final all nighter I was adamant about never doing that shit again, so I deleted my social media, changed my phone number, and ghosted my job so I could focus on me.
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Have you looked at Recovery Dharma? I just got the book. So far, I find it pretty darn amazing. It’s about “you fixing yourself”…the really short explanation of it.
I just hit 4 years sober. Did AA for those 4 years. I changed paths and have found that Recovery Dharma is really impactful. I really wish I had started it 4 years ago.
I havent been to one of their meetings yet, just reading the book.
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Music!! Yes!! Energy / frequency. Reading your drop down on astrology is fascinating. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts…lots to consider.
Have you listened to any of Sonic Yogi’s talks and music on healing thru sound frequency? Your comments reminded me of his course on Insight Timer…you may find it interesting. His meditations are also very relaxing…
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I’m loving the Pratchett!!! My husband turned me on to him and my mother in law (who used to be super Christian) introduced his books to her kids before they left the Episcopal church, which is interesting. He grew up reading them which, no doubt, led him on his journey to finding meaning beyond religion. I grew up outside of any religion and I’m grateful for that beyond measure. The finding meaning part has been a difficult thing, meaning and purpose, but this quote reminds me that actions are what really count.
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Another fully atheist here 
, which is easy in France …
Christopher Hitchens anyone ? I know he was pretty provocative/agressive for religious people
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Yes he can be very divisive… But some gems to be found. I actually have a quote of his saved, as I read it as part of the eulogy at a friends funeral a few years ago. He was a big Hitchens fan.
Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.
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Christopher Hitchens’ documentary on Mother Theresa. Available on YT. Say no more.
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I love my cats so much. 
. They’ve been the best and ‘closest in real life on a daily basis’ support network 
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8 months 13 days sober without god. Not only have I found secular AA zoom meeting and created a tribe of sober non religious people but yesterday I met a bunch of fellow non religious, sober polyamorous people 
I am so grateful for my sober journey. It has changed everything about my life and it’s trajectory.
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