Still many religious people make the claim to have it all figured out. It is written in their scriptures after all. But as soon as they don’t, they will use god’s will and the mysterious way he moves in as easy cop out. Anyway, I’m not here to discuss religion.
IMO finding an ultimate universal truth is nonsense. Unless that truth is 42 that is.
Hey Siand! Thanks for chiming in. I do understand what you’re saying here and I think I agree with you. I think that also here, what Radcliffe might be getting at and not necessarily saying well, is that though religion leaves space for mystery and the unknowable, it often purports to have an answer to the gray spaces we find ourselves in?
So upset with your family you want to leave? Pray about it. Find yourself lusting after your younger coworker? Go to confession.
Maybe it’s more that: there can sometimes be a bit to simple an answer to life’s complex questions?
What someone without those structures around them might do is say: “oh wow…your lusting after your coworker who is half your age? Hmm…that’s difficult. It sounds like maybe speaking to a therapist would be a good idea. The therapist then could ask you questions about how your marriage is currently. What your childhood was like. Ascertain that you have been on eggshells at home, and that with the stress you’ve been feeling at work after not getting the promotion you were counting on to get more money in the door, you reverted to your tendency from puberty to put your attention on a romantic interest to satisfy your need to escape. Or some such interaction.
So maybe what he was trying to say is that religion’s answers can subvert a lengthier opportunity for seeking and self knowledge?
Then again: who is to say that a devoutly religious person wouldn’t go “pray about it” and receive a divine message to…go to a therapist who would ask them those same questions!
It’s always tricky with questions like this, but….I really delight in picking through them anyway😁
How could I forget about that!! I’ll get my towel 
It is always tricky and of course I don’t know what Mr. R was referring to in his quote. Like you though I very much enjoy picking these things apart!
I was at a yoga festival at the weekend with a strong emphasis on vedanta and the philosophy of it all. I always find myself amazed and (happily) challenged by the amount of questions that there can be on the religious path. And also how diverse that path is.
It also makes me think about how I want to engage with things like that (yoga etc). I don’t think everyone who practices yoga should have to be Hindu or anything, but how much my crossover beliefs and interests in philosophy are valid or otherwise… Maybe not valid exactly, but whether it’s respectful I guess to engage in something without really understanding or believing in the whole structure that underpins it! Same with meditation and Buddhism. On the one hand I feel like it doesn’t matter, if I get some benefit from the practice it doesn’t necessarily matter if I don’t share all the beliefs. It’s OK to find relevant points in the philosophy that feel applicable to my daily life etc. I’m not making money from it or anything. I do make money from belly dancing (not much, ha, but still) which has a whole host of cultural appropriation potential in it, and I just get around that by trying to be honest about what I know and what I don’t. It still makes me feel a little uneasy though.
Something that’s been on my mind the last couple of days. Not sure it really fits in here but it’s where I’ve put it!
I’d say this sort of musings fit here very well. Thanks for sharing them.
Just one thing. Replace ‘the religious path’ with ‘life’s path’ in the next quote and it fits even better as we don’t talk religion here 
I was at a Catholic wedding once. I am very much not Catholic. During the ceremony I was unable to take communion because I didn’t “know the traditions” or whatever. It was super off putting to be the only member of the bridal party standing alone while everyone else snacked on Jesus.
I enjoy the occasional yoga session to keep myself limber. I haven’t the slightest clue about the purpose, history and traditions around it. All I know is that physically it’s beneficial.
I think inclusivity is the highest form of human compassion and so long as people are being respectful then it should be encouraged.
I think it’s completely okay to delve into other cultures etc whilst not being fully versed in tradition
That’s a nice way to put it. The festival I was at was certainly inclusive and encouraging. And the people organising/ delivering the classes and workshops clearly aren’t bothered about not everyone being on the exact same spiritual oath as them. So I shouldn’t worry about it!
I’ve been trying to work out what my issue actually is and I think it’s a part of my all or nothingness. Do yoga? Gotta be a yogi. Meditate? Be a Buddhist… Over the last year or so I’ve gotten around these headfucks I create for myself by letting everything go. Now I am starting to build back up, possibly too much too soon. I’m not sure if these are the signs of overwhelm creeping in or if I just have some learning to do on how to actually enjoy doing things I enjoy without having them become the rulers of my identity.
Ooohhh, good stuff there!! In my experience, the work of becoming who we are never ends. We continually change and grow as the days move from one to the next and years become decades. The process of being our selves is ever changing and we ‘try on’ various personas during the various phases of our lives. At least that is how my life has progressed so far. We do not arrive at the destination…it is all a journey. 
That is so true and very helpful to remember. What is the right thing (or best fit, or whatever) right now won’t always be. Different things at different times!
Hi, hope your all well and managing ok. I’m blooming marvelous. 2 weeks no alcohol 2 months no smoking.
The weather here in the UK is …well its like summers I remember as a kid , never ending.
I’m busying myself all the time, reading a hell of a lot at the minute and spending a lot of time gardening growing my own veggies all inbetween going to work.
Going to have a go at a vegan dinner tomorrow sweet potato chilli and cornbread which I picked up from the vegan/vegetarian thread.
Sounds good Col. Getting ready for bed here and another spell of very warm weather ahead across the North Sea.
One more day of work before my weekend. Bloody tired as Monday day shifts are the busiest shifts around in the detox I work. But I’m not totally drained like I was in my old job, even after a mediocre day.
My journey of recovery and discovery has brought me so much already and there’s more to come. One day at a time. My own road. But not alone. Together with all of you here.
You are so right @Mno . I wouldn’t say it’s easy but having you all here makes it a lot easier and more enjoyable everyone doing the best they can 
Dropped by to say I miss this thread and to share a few thoughts.
My husband’s grandmother (our favorite family member on his long deceased father’s side) passed away recently and he is going to the celebration of life at the end of the month. We could have made it work for me to attend also, but that side of the family has treated us so poorly. Because I’m so “different,” at best I am ignored but at worst there are passive aggressive comments about “illegals” and securing our borders but that they don’t mean me of course. 
Anyway, my point is that they are all of varying degrees self identifying asChristians but few of them seem to behave or live their lives by any such moral code. They also drink heavily and there is so much family drama bubbling under the surface it’s palpable. My husband is anticipating a shit show. How people can be so proud of a faith that they don’t seem to know anything about is prettying sickening to me.
By contrast, we just got back from a few days with my family that for all intents and purposes is godless, at the very least non-religious, and alcohol isn’t in the picture. It’s such a refreshing environment to be in. I always come back with a renewed sense of the person I am striving to be - kind, caring, interested in efforts to build community and be aware of world events, focus on healthy relationships and so on.
So, after discussing with my husband how I did not want to be in the toxic space that is his family and I can remember his grandmother with love without going to this, he agreed and I’ll stay home to be with my pup and garden. His perspective was this might be the last time he ever sees any of these family members and it can be a send off. It’s not that I think I’d be tempted to drink at something like this, but I know my husband will absolutely be joining in and I don’t need to see that mess, either.
Religion and booze is an interesting topic, I’d say. The relationship there is kind of all over the place with some faiths restricting and being secretive then about drinking while others have a culture of heavy drinking and problem drinking.
Thanks for reading my random thoughts.
Laughter aside, I’m glad you got a vent. Just as a caution, we’ve been reminded by mods to stay on point here on how being an atheist has impacted our sober journey and avoid derision of religion and people of faith. I thought about that after my post, but I think my example was specific to my family and I hope I didn’t generalize too much.
This right here is an excellent point. And that we are responsible for our recovery with the support of people and programs based on some science. This is where we can come to talk about those methods.
Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your perspective and responding to my post.
Wonderful and thoughtful post Rosa, thank you for sharing. I love how you advocate for yourself and how supportive your husband is. Really nice to read about. Plus…you get some alone time. I myself love thar! YMMV of course. And my condolences to you and your husband on the death of his grandmother, they can hold such a strong and loving place in our hearts.
Wow! Congrats on 20 days and all your tests so far!
Thank you Rosa! Yes absolutely. It is so easy to generalise based on our own (limited or otherwise) negative experiences. But of course there are many people on the forum of all faiths and none on the forum, and all are welcome!
Sounds like you’ve made the right call for this funeral. And I do think there is such a fascinating cultural point about the inclusion or exclusion of alcohol for religious reasons and the impact that can have on communities. In Britain it is very common to find a pub near a Church, presumably because those would have been the main focal points for the community.
I remember a holiday in Turkey, speaking to one of the bar people, who said he wouldn’t have a drink until after dark because of Ramadan Blew my mind! But a useful reminder that people can and do apply customs and beliefs in a way that suits their own lives.
