Sober without god. An atheist / agnostic / humanist thread. Please be respectful!

Yay and you’re welcome!!! :hugs::sunglasses::metal:t2:

I’ve noticed that many things in Life are so Paradoxical.
I don’t believe in coincidences.
Deja Vu
I traveled roughly 24,000 miles yesterday but it seemed just like I was standing still.
Many things try and spank you, keep an open Mind.
PEACE :rainbow: :sunny: :rainbow:

There is a feeling of “The Universe is against me”
But when that changes to a knowing of “The Universe is for me”
It becomes a game changer in sobriety.
Then I can see how I used alcohol to survive the angst of living in flight or fight.
When you can see how the Energy of The Uni-verse is working you learn where the switches are.
PEACE :rainbow: :sunny: :rainbow:

1 Like

Personally, I’m a bit more of a the-universe-is-indifferent guy. I don’t think the universe roots for or against us, or that it is even capable of caring. But that means it’s on me to create my own sobriety and to decide what it means for me. Existential recovery.

9 Likes

There are literally hundreds of threads on this forum where you can discuss your HP and or god. Literally, hundreds.

This is not one of those threads. We ask that you be respectful of that.

10 Likes

My thoughts too @TS66!!!

5 Likes

I’ve always found this idea of looking inside us, to our nucleus, our centre, our driving forces - I’ve found that idea to be very empowering. It’s so common to see or hear (or do, ourselves) the ‘the-solution-is-out-there-I-have-to-do-that’ thinking - the thinking that’s about projecting responsibility (and also surrendering responsibility, and therefore also surrendering personal power) - but ultimately that gets us nowhere.

When I was in school I learned about this concept of “flow” and it is a fascinating idea: there is a state where we are immersed in something constructive for us, where we are feeling the electricity of connections and creation, and where we are in “flow”. It can happen in families, at work, in sports, in just about any area of human action.

And the idea of creating my own sobriety, taking personal responsibility for that, I think is supported by this experience of “flow”: really digging deep to who we are, at our core.

The original researcher and author about flow explains it here:

6 Likes

For me, being part of the universe means we’re in this together. It’s all about connection and we’re all connected. Everything is. We have to make it together. Isolating, being alone, is denial of being part of humanity, of this living world, and in the end denial of being part of the universe.

Everything I’ve learned since I started my journey of Recovery/Discovery comes down to me learning to connect. Connect with my fellow humans first. But we can extrapolate that literally endlessly until we end up with being connected to the universe at large. Although at this moment in time trying to connect with my fellow human beings is big enough a task for me. The universe has to wait for a bit. But we’re all part of the universe right.

Through my life’s circumstances and through my character and personality I isolated myself since early childhood. Substance abuse and other addictive behaviours only made my isolation and my isolating worse and worse through the decades. Sobriety and my subsequent journey of Discovery have given me the chance to work on reversing this process. It’s hard work but it’s a work of love.

Looking for happiness is not an aim in itself I think. We have to look for fulfilment, through connecting to one another, through living a right and righteous life, through trying to advance ourselves and our fellow man (and other creatures too). That way we might find happiness.

Anyway, we should keep it simple I feel. I do for sure. Let me work on finding connection, on making connection. The rest will follow. We have to do it together. If there’s something I believe in, it is that.

11 Likes

This has been upheld and challenged many times

People on supervised release or probation/parole for drug charges. Were often told as part of their release they had to attend AA meetings. The Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional in many instances because AA refers to spirituality or higher powers often “God” which infringed on the parolees freedom of religion by mandating them to attend a Faith based program

3 Likes

10 Likes

Cosmos was an awe inspiring show, I so enjoyed it. Carl Sagan was an epic human.

5 Likes

7 Likes

7 Likes

I very much liked the idea of stoicism as well as AA, and was fully behind both until you hit that point where they both have religion or a higher power as one of the prerequisite major support pillars of the entire construct. AA seems to claim you have like a 95 percent chance of failure without that higher power to lean on. Stoicism claims you should find peace under all circumstances because anything that could possibly happen to you is natural, and nature is supplied by god. Boy, things would be so much easier if i could subscribe to those things.

Much harder to manage things like addiction when the world is basically a chaotic meaningless petri dish, and youre just one germ doomed to die and be forgotten in what is really such a short time.

I guess the best thing to do is just take the editorial scissors to both AA and stoicism and make a patchwork of my favorite bits eh? :wink:

5 Likes

@reedni94 The thing aa got right IMO is community. We need our peers, we need each other, we need each other’s support, we need to share our knowledge, to learn from each other, we need to share our victories and our failures too. We’re in this together.
aa is wrong in assuming that everybody would be successful in staying sober and clean if only they’d follow the big book and the twelves steps. IMO. That’s way too dogmatic and narrow. It works for some but by far not for all.
I come form a family of marxists. Marx got a lot of things right about society but he got loads of fundamental stuff wrong too. I still like some of his ideas but I’m not a marxist at all. Nor am I in aa. I choose my own path and indeed I choose what best fits my own journey from wherever I can find it. This forum is my sober community. I work in addiction care where I hope to give some back to my brothers and sisters in addiction and maybe mean something for society at large as well.
And I work on my own defects, on the stuff that made me an addict in the first place, by working on myself, in psychotherapy and in ‘normal’ life. Work that I can only do because I’m sober and clean.
I don’t know enough about stoicism to say anything meaningful about that. And I simply don’t believe in a god. Just like I don’t believe in a higher power. It’s us who have to do it. Together.
Anyway, I don’t really want to talk about aa here. I want to talk about my recovery and how I do it, and exchange ideas and stories with others who walk their own road. Like you seem to be doing too friend. Wishing you all success.

10 Likes

I, for one, am very happy it’s the shortest day today. In the northern hemisphere that is of course. Here’s to the slow return of daylight. One day at a time. Happy solstice and love to you all. We’re in this together.

12 Likes

It’s a joyous day to celebrate! It can feel somber, but better days are coming. I’m grateful to be headed this direction. Happy solstice :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

6 Likes

To me it doesn’t matter what you believe or not believe. You’re all humans to me. Let everybody just be absolutely sure we’re in this together. We’re in this to care for each other and to take care of each other. Which begins with taking care of ourselves.

To love each other means we have to learn to love ourselves first. One day at a time. I don’t need anybody’s belief system to remind me of that. Everybody is worthy of love whatever their belief system, skin colour, gender, sexual preference, heritage or descendance. Have a great sober and clean 2023 all. Let’s fight for love.

12 Likes

Absolutely love this. Thank you for sharing, dear friend. :slightly_smiling_face:

3 Likes

That is the post of the day!

3 Likes