My husband is similar, cares deeply about others and works toward making his corner of the world better for all and 100% an atheist.
7 Likes
Terribly off topic. Cornelis Vreeswijk only had a few small hits here, rather odd and comical songs. His true career was in Sweden. Special man. Just found this duo lingo version of Veronica. I like 
2 Likes
I’ve never heard this version, but It was wonderful. Thank you for showing me.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard him sing in anything but Swedish, even If I know he was from The Netherlands. My father used to point it out every time he played his music.
I grew up with listening to all of his songs. He was indeed special, and for what I know his son is now touring Sweden singing his father’s songs. Which he has done for years.
Not really to much of topic though, for what I know Cornelis Vreeswijk had problems with alcohol a huge part of his life. So I feel like he kinda belongs a little bit here.
However this might be a little more off topic.
Over here we say that the Netherland language is a mix between Swedish and German. And is more or less understandable. Many of our words sounds a like. The spelling on the other hand is a different game 
2 Likes
Derailing this topic just a little bit more (promise it’s last one before I move myself to the derailment thread): funny thing is spoken Swedish when spoken slowly I can understand quite a bit, but written nope. And it’s the other way around with Danish. I can read a Danish newspaper some. But Danish sounds like Chinese to me.
5 Likes
Check out heathens in recovery. I believe they are a 12 step program, just without all the higher power talk
3 Likes
That sounds cool. I love the 12 steps and think they are very beneficial . I also think that it is possible to do them without spirituality. Do you have a link or anything?
1 Like
Theres also pagans in recovery
1 Like
2 Likes
I cant find one for heathens in recovery except a facebook page. I know they do 12 steo meetings by me that are atheist. But theyre hard to find.
Pagans aren’t atheists, agnostics or humanists so don’t fall under the scope of this thread.
People calling themselves heathens in general associate with some sort of spirituality, often some sort of Nordic mythology. These are the groups that come up when I google heathen 12 steps. Here is an interesting example, a reworking of the 12 steps in a 9-step program based on German mythology and Jungian principles (so involving spirituality):
https://appalachianpaganministry.com/the-heilvegr/
There’s a substantial number of agnostics and atheists in AA. Boggles my mind how they do it but OK. Here’s an active group of them:
The Minnesota Model is a worldwide used professional addiction treatment model based on the 12 steps. It’s professional care but most of the treatment is given by counselors, people who are in Recovery, who have done the the 12 steps themselves. To make it more accessible to as many people as possible the 12 step model the Minnesota treatment utilizes has god removed from the 12 steps. You can find that model here:
My personal opinion, which is solely based on my own experience as I have seen plenty of people benefit from 12 step recovery programs:
I need my peers in Recovery. I need my brothers and sisters who are addicts themselves, who know the deal, where I can find support, from whom I can learn and who I can support myself.
I became an addict because of genetics combined with stuff that happened in my (early) youth, before I got addicted. For that I need psychotherapy. The combination of peer support and psychotherapy is what is learning me how to live a healthy happy adult life, which I was prevented from living before because of the stuff that happened in my youth and my consequent addiction, that prevented me from growing up and out of it.
I’m finally growing up thanks to my continued sobriety, my peers and psychotherapy. I don’t need the 12 steps for that, which I consider to be a rather crude form of CBT which has been overtaken by many more modern and better methods of treatment. But that’s me and my personal opinion.
7 Likes
I agree. Having peers or a community definitely helps in thos fight. Probably the biggest reason im still sober. Having support, not feeling alone and working out my personal and family ossues in therapy.
5 Likes
I ponder often on my late start at ‘growing up’ and maturity after spending a lifetime in active addiction. It has been a lot to pack into my years of recovery…but it (‘growing up’) seems to pick up speed as I continue moving forward in healing my self, building self esteem and confidence and nurturing my self with copious amounts of self love. Certainly this community has played a huge part in the support needed to become and sustain sobriety. My recovery plan has also included many other sobriety focused apps and groups, all of which I learned from…as well as community support within the fitness and yoga communities and the support of a few very close friends. I have also found support and healing thru somatic and talk therapy, massage therapy, sound therapy and movement classes. I agree with Gabor Mate that the opposite of addiction is connection and I am grateful for my connections.
I feel my sober toolbox also benefited greatly from the foundation laid thru all the reading I did…beginning with Allen Carr, Annie Grace and so many others who share their stories (aka quit lit). From there I returned to my early roots of mindfulness and metta. All together they have helped me grow up and out of the decades of self destructive escapism thru drugs and alcohol.
I believe we are all unique individuals and need to find the combo that works for us.
7 Likes
6 Likes
We certainly were blessed with the best movies ever ‘growing up’.
3 Likes
Almost correct in my opinion. Church or actually the Jews, from the beginning called people who weren’t Jews heathens, than the church in general started to use it for everyone who wasn’t Christians.
It isn’t until pretty recently believers of the Aesir gods have started to calm themselves heathens probably to mark that they don’t believe in Christianity. But to Christians even Buddhists, Hindus or Pagans are heathens.
Anyway, except for that input I totally agree. It doesn’t belong in this thread. They still believe in a higher power. Ateist does not.
2 Likes
5 Likes
