Sober without god. An atheist / agnostic / humanist thread. Please be respectful!

[Matt]

How is this relevant to agnosticism and atheism? Sorry I’m just trying to see the connection you’re making

[KeepMovingForward]

I’m saying if someone wants to try and get sober as an atheist or agnostic – i think shooting for a sustainable meaning and purpose is key and can be done without religion or a higher power.

[Dirk]

Sure, @KeepMovingForward, you do you. Maybe another thread would be more appropriate for your thoughts?

[Cjp]

This comment isnt kind or helpful @Dirk @KeepMovingForward didnt say you needed a god or higher power but finding purpose which is relevent to the thread in my opinion. I dont want to be part of the derailment thread so ill leave it at that

[KeepMovingForward]

Thanks for the support!

[Matt]

Thanks Matt I appreciate you simplifying it down to a few words for me; I was having trouble seeing the thread in the longer posts. I get it now though

[Mno]

I shared something about “atheist spirituality” in this thread not so long ago.

Sober without god. An atheist / agnostic / humanist thread. Please be respectful!

I thank you for your contribution, as it made me think about the meaning -for me- of the word ‘spirituality’ in earnest for the first time really. Never felt at ease with the word, as the atheist and materialist I grew up as. And certainly didn’t feel at ease with it after becoming sober, seeing the word misused as another word for religious, a belief in a deity, a soul, a spirit, all stuff I saw and see no reason to believe in. But now you made me think. And I just started reading around about…

The word spirituality still makes me uneasy. I’ll stay with connection. It’s connection I’m looking for and the longer I’m working my recovery/discovery the more I’m beginning to find it. Connection to myself, to others, to the world, to the universe. One day at a time.

I hugged and high fived a bike mechanic / bike shop owner today as together we’ve hatched a plan where I’m going to build my own dream bike under his guidance. Shed a tear too. Crazy stuff . We’re all connected and the opposite of addiction is connection .

[Matt]

@Mno

I hugged and high fived a bike mechanic / bike shop owner today as together we’ve hatched a plan where I’m going to build my own dream bike under his guidance.

Woohoo! Looking forward to hearing more about this (and hopefully also some photos).

[acromouse]

@Mno

I’ll stay with connection. It’s connection I’m looking for and the longer I’m working my recovery/discovery the more I’m beginning to find it. Connection to myself, to others, to the world, to the universe. One day at a time.

This is gold, friend.

@Mno

we’ve hatched a plan where I’m going to build my own dream bike

We do expect regular updates on this

[Dirk]

I accept that, @Cjp and I apologize if that made you feel unwelcome, @KeepMovingForward.

I guess I just got a little bit uneasy about @KeepMovingForward proclaiming that they do God and proceeding to state that, in order to have a shot at sobriety, everyone needs purpose and meaning in their life. Personally, I believe human life has no purpose or meaning at all, other than to fulfil your parents’ wish to have a child together. With that in mind, you may as well try your best to live a life filled with happiness and that includes kindness and connection to other forms of life, be they human, animal or nature.

I am doing absolutely fine in my sobriety (wobbles included) and have done for almost two years, counting down the days. For anyone to tell me that “to try and get sober as an atheist or agnostic shooting for a sustainable meaning and purpose is key” felt like it diminishes my beliefs, efforts and achievements. Also, it singles out atheists and agnostics, as if people that believe in a higher power automatically have a sustainable meaning and purpose.

All in all, it felt to me that @KeepMovingForward’s comments were out of place in this group. Purely my personal opinion and not intended to force that onto anyone else.

[KeepMovingForward]

It’s all good. You’re likely not the only one to have that reaction. My intention isn’t to upset anyone but share my thoughts on the topic. This topic is a little controversial in my opinion so it’s difficult to ensure I don’t trigger or offend anyone.

I think you understood me correctly. It’s my opinion that being an atheist or agnostic doesn’t take away someone’s ability to have genuine sobriety and all of its benefits. However if someone is a nihilist I think the best they can do is be a dry drunk. I think nihilism is a potential symptom of addiction and I would urge everyone to avoid going full “life is meaningless”. I think this is very relevant to the topic. @Dirk we aren’t going to agree on this and that’s okay.

[Matt]

@KeepMovingForward

However if someone is a nihilist I think the best they can do is be a dry drunk. I think nihilism is a potential symptom of addiction and I would urge everyone to avoid going full “life is meaningless”. I think this is very relevant to the topic. @Dirk we aren’t going to agree on this and that’s okay.

I’m gonna take the “this comment isn’t kind or helpful” ball and play it here too.

Calling @Dirk (or at least casting shade with that “nihilism” line and thereby implying he is) a dry drunk is insulting and not helpful.

When you participate as much and as meaningfully, earnestly, sincerely, and generally helpfully here on Talking Sober as Dirk does, you’ve earned some good will and you have definitely earned the right not to be minimized in that way.

If you want to get into why the nihilism line is sanctimonious of you to say, please PM me so we don’t derail this thread.

[Dirk]

Indeed we aren’t. First you came for the atheists and agnostics, now you’re coming for the nihilists, who’s next?

Can you not see that someone’s belief system has nowt to do with their success in sobriety and recovery?

[Matt]

Oooh good use of “nowt”. I love me a word that has regional flair.

Points for Dirk!

[Mno]

For clarity I’m going to quote the first post of this thread.

@Mno

As the title says, this thread is dedicated to methods to stay sober that don’t involve religion, god, or a higher power. And aimed at people that find their way through their sobriety without using religion, god or a higher power.

This is NOT a place to question these methods, and also not a place to try and convince people that in fact they should use other methods than the ones they already use. This place wants to be a safe place for people finding their own roads of Recovery without fear of retributions or harassment by others.

I don’t think your read this or you wouldn’t have posted what you posted. Because what you do is exactly what people are asked NOT to do here. You are questioning the ways people present here find their way through sobriety. Whatever I, or Dirk, or anybody here, thinks of life and its meaning is none of your business. With respect. As per the first post in this thread.

It seems to me you didn’t take the trouble to have a look around this thread at all. Or you would have found zero of the ‘nihilism’ you talk of. None of the contributors to this thread use ‘nihilism’ as a way to remain sober. This is your opinion, which is coloured by your beliefs. You’re entitled to your opinion, and beliefs, but not in this thread. You and everybody are specifically asked not to question the methods discussed in this topic and you are questioning them.

A quote from you:

@KeepMovingForward

This topic is a little controversial in my opinion

All the more reason not to engage here. To me the topic isn’t controversial at all. That’s why I am here. Personally I feel religion is controversial but I’m not going unto one of the hundreds of religious threads here discussing that. And I won’t discuss that here either as it’s beyond the scope of this topic.

So I’m asking you politely not to participate in this thread anymore. It’s not helpful to anyone’s recovery here. Like Matt I’m asking you if you have any thoughts you’d like to share on the subject to do so in a PM.

[Von100]

could not help myself

[Von100]

No god or religion needed

[Amy30]

@KeepMovingForward

the best they can do is be a dry drunk.

I’m not a dry drunk.
I’m not religious.
I’m sometimes nihilistic. Depends on the day.
I’m pragmatic.
I think I’m a humanist.
I got sober without God or a higher purpose.
But I’m most definitely not a dry drunk. I fought hard for my sobriety. Not some divine intervention. Me. My blood. My tears. My hard work. I don’t miss it. I’m not white knuckling it. I don’t romanticise my drinking days.

[Rockstar24777]

I have a hard time with the term spiritual and LOVE that you use connection instead. That makes sense to me, thank you Menno!!!

[Tragicfarinelli]

Same. Spirituality as a term is a no for me.

But I think in terms of a kind of symbiosis. A vital capture of human and geographical life that literally makes the world go around.

Tree and mycelium structures underground
The water cycle
Migratory birds
Seasons
Birth and death
Growth and mould
Medicinal herbs
Delta formation
Carbon capture
Osmosis and chlorophyll
Evolutionary physical changes to form
Breathing
Digestion

And more tender cycles:
Folklore
Family trees
Antique passdowns
Traditions
Rituals
Instincts
Beliefs
Teaching of skills
Teaching of stories
Loving touch
Intellect and sharing

None of this is spiritual unless you make it so. And it doesn’t have to be, nor should it. But to me, I am massively invested and connected with my environment more so often than I am people. It makes sense to me and means I have very little nihilism, rather stoic and sensible connection.