This article was on a science page that I follow on social media. It’s a LONG read, but is VERY interesting. It’s main point is basically that AA has no basis in medicine or science, and that if alcoholism is truly a disease, can it be treated with medicine or other alternatives. Note: if AA currently works for you, excellent. This is more for the ones that are skeptical of it and are curious about other treatments.
9 Likes
If you believed wearing a jam donut on your head will help you quit alcohol and it WORKED FOR YOU then I for one would applaud your wearing of a donut.
AA works for some so I am wary of trying to prove that it doesn’t work for others. And what that means if it gets proved.
Some people are comfortable with AA, others not.
So read everything with an open mind and then decide what works for you and go for it.
If the donut isn’t working have you thought of a slice of apple pie? 
24 Likes
Couldn’t agree with you more @AndyC555. It doesn’t matter what it is that gets and keeps you sober (as long as you accept your primary aim is to get straight for YOURSELF). And discussions about this can be thought provoking, but some of the discussions on the forum have lost us good people because they can get too heated.
Politics and Religion aren’t sensitive topics for me but they can be for many!
5 Likes
I feel the same. The sharing and talking is interesting and reassured me I am not the lone lunatic i sometimes thought i was and just going to the meeting served as a focus and reminder of what I am trying to achieve.
Just as this forum does.
And there is a kind of humour in reading or hearing a totally crazy story and thinking “oops, yep, I did that too!”
6 Likes
What ever keeps you sober then do it .i went to AA here in Scotland kept me sober for 31 years ,
9 Likes
I think it takes a little bit of “crazy” to get started with alcohol to the level we do to begin with.
1 Like
I loved your last sentence really tickled me. But yes you are totally right
I agree with all of you, do what works! I personally use fitness and cycling. I just thought the article contained interesting info that some may appreciate or find interesting.
1 Like
@Thomas_Wallace and @Donut89
Great article. Kind of helped me solidify my thoughts on AA. I wish she’d talked more about some of the other programs out there. She focused on the meds aspect, but not everyone has trouble with alcohol due to physical cravings. I really appreciated the description of the studies on rats. I do wish she’d elaborated more on the women’s survey responses that we’re so different from the men’s in that one study. That’s the premise of Women For Sobriety, that AA was founded by men with men in mind, and women often have very different reasons for drinking.
I do think abstinence is best for me right now, but not AA. I was on Naltrexone when I was weaning off alcohol, but I was taking one pill a day instead of before drinks the way it was intended. I also don’t think I have physical cravings anymore, my triggers are mostly habitual due to previous use of alcohol for stress relief. Which means I mostly need to work on finding more healthy coping mechanisms.
In any case, thanks for posting the article. I’m going to send it to my addiction counselor (who does have advanced degrees and is working on his doctorate) and to my therapist, and discuss it with them. I’m also going to follow up reading some of the primary literature mentioned in the articles, plus some of the books. The article gave me exactly the research starting point I’ve been looking for.
3 Likes
It’s almost impossible to “scientifically” study a group where the only method of data input is self reporting. It’s worked for millions of people over the years, men and women alike. It’s not for everyone obviously, but to say it doesn’t work is pretty outlandish. You can ask @Ray_M_C_Laren who has 31 years of sobriety in the program and most likely the most time in the forum. Or any of the ten or so people in my home group who have over 40 years.
I support any type of program that helps people get sober. I think it’s reckless to discourage people from trying it bc it could be just the program that saves their life. I know it saved mine. It worked when no other program did.
This forum is about getting sober in any way possible, not for posting articles dissuading someone who is new here from trying out a method of recovery that has worked for such a large number of people.
2 Likes
I’m really tired of being “not allowed” to say anything against AA without being jumped on as completely wrong. And I’m really tired of the bias and inability to even consider other programs or treatment methods as valid. The article, if you read it, is mostly about other treatment methods. And it IS possible to study alcohol dependency, the biological basis of it, which has absolutely nothing to do with 12 steps. I have nothing against the “millions of people” you claim have been helped by AA (I have no idea where you’re getting that number. As you say, it is difficult to research an anonymous group that keeps no records of numbers or long term success). Nor do I want to discourage people from using AA. What I want to do is ENCOURAGE people who do not find AA to be right for them to get help in other ways. Your insistence that AA is the only right path does NOT help these people. And I don’t appreciate that anytime people who do not want to use AA try to talk to each other on this forum, AA people jump all over our conversation. I’m really tired of being in the closet. I bite my tongue constantly. I may leave this forum if I can’t be open about how AA is NOT right for ME, and some other people, without AA jumping all over it.
5 Likes
I already said I support any program that gets someone sober. And you can certainly have your opinions about AA, but I don’t care for the fact that people are trying to prove it wrong. I’ve tried all types of recovery programs and they all have benefits.
1 Like
Again, I support anything, but to actively try to disprove a program of sobriety isn’t helping anyone. I would defend SMART or IOP or Women in Sobriety or Church or burning down every bar within 100 miles just the same.
1 Like
Thanks. I am so glad that AA has worked for you, and I don’t want to try to take that away from anyone. This forum has been really important to my sobriety, so I probably won’t leave, but I might stick more closely to just checking in for awhile.
I love you C-sun!
@Ninetales I have not read the whole thread but please know how important you are here 
So you stay on here one day at a time.
We are all allowed to have our beliefs and we find what works for us. So you go look for that dearest! I can only speak for myself and nobody else. What happens to me when I try find scientific facts to prove AA wrong which I have done not once but probably a hundred times is that it makes me spiritually sick because I try find a solution elsewhere to a problem that can’t be fixed by pure science. But that is just for me! I personally had to let go of those thoughts and just join in unity of the fellowship. What I try now is to make it simple and just do because when I question too much I become defensive. However I have all respect for whatever is your path and I know there are other ways to stay sober 
I think if people have too many opinions of what you do it’s their problem not yours. We in AA should live by attraction rather than promotion so whatever others decide is none of our business really 
So you keep working on your sobriety However you like. You are Such a sweetheart and have helped me so many times on this forum. Love and light to you 
2 Likes
The one study that I put MY stock in says that someone in A program has a 20% better chance of staying clean than someone who is not. That program can be anything! Wake up, go for a walk, talk to someone who supports you, whatever. As long as you have a “program” for yourself. Mine started with medically assisted detox, then a stay in a hospital, then IOP and therapy and a psychiatrist. Now it’s still the therapist and psychiatrist, lots of reading and playing strategy PC games, this forum and work. I know AA works for a shit ton of people and I’ll never say I’ll never go, but what I’m doing works for me. I’ve personally never had anyone here tell me I’m doing the wrong thing or should go to meetings (except a few crazies who didn’t last a week because they were assholes or trolls). I don’t care what anyone else thinks, staying sober is the goal.
5 Likes
Well said, Legacy. I agree with you about the term acoholic. In the article posted at the beginning of this thread, she says that the term alcoholic has fallen out of favor in the medical community, instead they are using the term “alcohol use disorder.” I think it helps some people to “accept” or “admit” they are “alcoholics,” and so we shouldn’t necessarily discourage the use of the term. But it also shouldn’t be forced on anyone. Also, the global medical community has started thinking of the disorder as a continuum, instead of categorical. In other words, it is not that some people are alcoholics and others aren’t, it is a matter of degree as to how severe the alcohol use disorder is. Along these lines, some people can be treated to be able to moderate alcohol consumption, while others, more severe cases, really need abstinence. Treatment is not “one size fits all.” I like to think of myself as simply addicted to a poison. But I need abstinence, because trying to control it is much more stressful for me.
A lot of what you said reminds me of This Naked Mind. Have you read that book? There is a lot of crappy science in it, and her referencing is awful and drove me crazy, but some of her metaphors and points really rang true and stuck with me. I did hear that her book us a lot like Alan Carr’s previous books, so I want to read those.
I in no way want to discourage people from using AA if it helps them. For sure, it has saved lives. But I think it is archaic not to question the success of different methods, and AA does not need to be proven to have a really high success rate in order to help some people. The article says that the best estimate we have us 5-8 % success. Out of millions of people with this problem, that is a lot of people. If you are in that 5-8%, you are really lucky in this country, because AA is so accessible. Other methods of treatment are so much less available and recognized. For example, there are 100’s of AA meeting a week in my city, but zero SMART meeting or Women For Sobriety meetings. There is a great recovery center in town, but they use the 12 steps.
Anyway, thank you for the discussion. I really enjoy talking about this. It feels really good to hear other points of view, beyond AA.
1 Like
@MissDuse
Jenny, thank you for your kind words. Love and Light to you too! I am so grateful that you found AA, because it has helped you so much. Please don’t feel that I want to discourage you from what has been so important to you! I just want you to stay sober, if that is what you want, by any means that work for you. I really appreciate the respect that you have for my choice to question AA and follow another path. So, thank you for that. I will stay on this forum, because of people like you.
1 Like
@Meggers
Megan, thanks for sharing! What I would really like to see on this forum, that would help me on my journey, is to hear from non-AA people what methods or programs or tools have worked for them. I am early in sobriety, and I really need to hear from people with a lot of sober time, who have not used AA. I need this for two reasons: first, I need to have hope that I can stay sober without AA, because it is not for me, I am pretty sure at this point, at least for now. Second, I need to know how people have done it without AA. So, thank you for sharing what has worked for you. That is exactly what I need to hear! I am not doing this with sheer will power. So far, my tools are: replacing alcohol with a non-alcoholic drink I really like, talking with my husband and having a partner in this new sober life, individual and group therapy in an IOP, talking with my regular therapist, keeping my mental health stable, designing and sticking to my relapse prevention program, looking into other programs and researching alcoholism, reading recovery books, talking with supportive friends, and very importantly to me: this forum and the friends I have made here. I am very strong in my sobriety as long as I can prepare mentally when I am going to encounter alcohol, and am not blindsided.
I hope to hear from lots more people who have found other pathways than AA.
4 Likes