Right, I think AA is great for religious people and even the non religious adaptations and claims smack heavily of it. I don’t disagree with the claims or methods necessarily but really the members bother me more.
Bill W is lauded to sainthood even though his transfer addiction killed him in a very pathetic way. The program has a poor success rate, but if you ask, the claim is someone just “wasn’t doing it right” or “enough” or whatever else. AA is not the only way, not even a particularly good way, but it’s the most available way.
The egos, the traditions, the folksy Maxims, the sheer structure is a turnoff. I’m in Mensa and turned off for similar reasons. The most damning part is that the first words out of anyone’s mouth are “go to a meeting.” For people with mental health problems, a huge swath of alcoholics, that’s not enough. AA is not a substitute for or even primary to medical care. It’s a niche religious solution. If your concept of a fulfilled life is coffee in a church basement bemoaning the flawed nature of humanity, fine.
So I’m not so much knocking it but people put way, way too much emphasis on it.
Have you tried anything like Refuge Recovery, Recovery Dharma, or Buddhism more generally? I keep starting to dip into it but not really committing to it enough to get anything out of it.
I totally relate to something you said earlier, going between completely worthless to grandiose and the Buddhist thing is about the middle path. I feel like that would be a positive thing to cultivate.
I also am unsure as to whether medical care is always the answer to mental health problems. I think it’s an answer, sure, but any honest GP will say they don’t really understand it, why it happens or how antidepressants (sometimes) work.
I think for a lot of people having a good community, a positive support network and access to resources to look after themselves is a big part of improving mental health. But it’s different for all of us and there isn’t one right answer.
This is the main thing. Just because you don’t agree with a method or it hasn’t worked for you doesn’t mean it can’t help someone else. @Nullcorp I think it’s counterproductive in this forum to negatively speak of another program in general terms instead of just sharing why it didn’t work for you. Putting a blanket statement out there condemning a program could sway someone away from something that could be beneficial to them. You’re definitely allowed to have your viewpoint on this forum. I think we need to be very careful about how we share our point of view so that it won’t deter someone from getting help they need.
Brad, just stop. You can’t say shit about AA, you won’t even give it a chance. The success rate of any type of recovery maxes out around 2%, and AA has it.
And please, what the hell does Mensa have to do with it? I tested at a 161 when I was 18 and grew up in the nation’s leading concentration of Mensa, a lot of them went to AA and NA. Crank was a huge issue where I grew up because everyone worked for the DOD and DOE labs and took crank or stole their kids ritalin and adderall, hence there were a lot of addicts and alcoholics. None of those people who qualified for Mensa sounded anything like you. A lot of then went to NA or AA and got help, and were grateful for it. One thing I know for sure? None of them thought they were too smart for help.
And on another point, take a poll of people who go to AA and their religious standing. Most of the people I know that go to AA aren’t religious.
Stop bashing shit. Until you have a leg to stand on you just sound like a hypocrite.
You really are your own worst enemy. I agree with you. You are far too intelligent for AA. Yet you are a common, stupid drunk. Nothing unique about you at all. A dime a dozen. You disregard the fact that your enlightened thinking got you into the position you are in now.
Keep racking up inventory and I will pray to baby Jesus for your salvation.
Hell I’ll take all that awful stuff you claim about AA because my life is fuckin awesome these days and that’s all thanks to AA. However, I hope you find something that works for you because no one deserves to be as miserable as you seem to be every day.
Sometimes seeing the sobriety I don’t want is almost as good as seeing the sobriety I do want. I’d rather be a moron in AA than the smartest man on Misery Island.
Has there been sustained abstinence even? Perfect example of a lack of acceptance, a ounce of humility. Dude’s been through geographic changes, brisk overviews and critiques of sobriety programs. Yet still hangs on to fucking Mensa? He is repeating the same shit since I joined TS with God only knowing how many relapses, denials of alcoholism, trying to drink like a normal person. @Nullcorp you have read Alcholics Anonymous you should see yourself everywhere in the book.
If “it’s different for all of us and there isn’t one right answer”, then anyone should be able to write down
what worked for them and why, and anyone should be able to write down what does not work for them and why, without anyone bullying them in defense of their method of choice.
If AA worked for you, GREAT, write down why and how. If you are able to admit that different people have different paths, just get over it if your method does not work for someone else.
Particularly in Brad’s case, he specifically pointed out that he left Mensa for the exact same reasons he couldn’t stick with AA. If you are going to bully someone, in a depression support thread of all things, at least read what they write.
In addition, I did have the same beefs with AA. The most secular one I found in my hometown was way too religious for me to be able to stick to it. I do come here to feel that I am not alone. I can relate. There maybe plenty of others who feel the same way - but quiet ones, do not flood each and every thread on the forum.
If you stick to AA, and your life is just amazing right now - good for you, just don’t use it to bring people down if they are different from you.
You seem cinical as can be.
I am not religious at all.
NA works for me not because people praise the lord… But because it marks sobriety for me.
2 times a week I can share my highs and my lows with people who understand.
To be honest i am kinda irritated by your judgmental approach.
You speek of Ego, whilst your judgment is nothing but your Ego judging over others in recovery. As if you are superior… Well sorry you are just like me addicted right?
We could debate succes rates and what not. The whole clue is that you should build your life and see NA as a part off recovery and not as a whole sum.
To be fair, I don’t go to AA. I am just sick of seeing someone bash the same thing over and over and over again, only to plead for help and repeatedly decide that the help offered isn’t good enough for them. But, in the end, I need to decide how much space I’m going to let someone else take in my head. It’s not great for MY mental health.
No one bullied Brad. Brad keeps unequivocally stating that AA is a " religous" program which it is not. He further states it has a 2% success rate which I disagree with.
No one bullies Brad. Brad bullies Brad. Furthermore there are a lot of AA remembers on here and we do no inundate posts with it. Nor do we claim we hold the key to sobriety and fully admit there are other paths there and we are respectful of those paths. Sorry you thought I was offensive.
Look man, a whole bunch of people with a lot of sobriety keep telling you there are ways to do this, and you keep fighting everyone about everything they say. Its like you aren’t actually ready to quit, and you definitely haven’t accepted that you should give something new a try. You don’t seem to be ready, and you are not being healthy to your own sobriety, or others with how you are constantly answering people the way you do.
No, people get their knickers in a twist when you say anything about AA, specifically. And I mentioned it was fine as a religious program. It works well as that. What I specifically took issue with the insistence it’s the only way, or a necessary one, and it’s a common mentality I see here and elsewhere. I’m not sure what’s so controversial there.
I’m extremely sure it’s not for me if that’s how insecurely its members behave.
AA is definitely not the only way. In fact I encourage people to try all sorts of things. Except sitting around on their pity-pot and boo-hooing about life and not doing a goddamn thing to fix it.
That’s great AA is not for you. No one is making you go. I agree you need to find what works for you. But in my opinion, just leave it at that. It doesn’t work for you.
Fact is it has worked for a lot of people. There are a lot of newcomers on this site that are just searching for anything that might give them hope that they can quit whatever their DOC is. Maybe AA will work for them, maybe it won’t. But I don’t see the need in downplaying a program because you don’t like it.
Getting sober is difficult for everyone. I have no problem with the hard truth, but what you’re saying is only your truth. AA can because huge help, it has a religious part, but that can be interrupted a million different ways. Just allow people searching for help to decide their own truth.
Just being positive can go a long way in helping another addict. This should be a site where people can find hope, not be discouraged.
I don’t hang on to mensa. I said that specifically.
I own the AA book and twelve traditions. It didn’t speak to me. Sorry. Using someone’s mental health and sobriety attempts as a wedge to shame them into doing your program is subhuman behavior and it doesn’t belong here.
It’s the fact that you make up a bunch of falsities about it because it didn’t make your life better overnight. Well guess what? Nothing does. You’ve been kicking around here for as long as I can remember not making an inch of progress. Then you blame literally everything and everyone else as to why your life still sucks. Well guess who’s at the scene of the crime their bub? You. You are the only problem in your life and you refuse to look at it. Good luck. You’re clearly going to need it