Custody of my eyes - discussion about personal responsibility and triggers for pmo

Life in Recovery
1

@liv_m
@littlemisschatterbox
@anon27760155

For most of my life, my “niceness” would have come out and I would have been so careful to agree with you, being all sorry, liking your comments, etc.

And just like I don’t have to care about what others around me are wearing, I also don’t have to care about what others are saying or feeling about me.

Because the important thing is that I love and accept myself for who I am.

I feel as though people were implying that I was placing the responsibility for my behavior on other people, namely women, because of what they are wearing. I don’t see that.

So I will expound on what I said to try to make others understand.

First of all, I do believe that there is an appropriate standard of how men and women should dress. For the people that say that they can wear whatever they want, I’m not going to stop them, nor blame them for my behavior because of their lack of value for modesty.

Now, when it comes to dressing sexually provacatively, I’m not referring to the majority of women. I believe that most women do dress appropriately. But I also believe that a lot don’t.

I simply refuse to accept that yoga pants, see-through tops, super short skirts, or super short shorts, should be deemed acceptable attire in most public occasions. I wouldn’t let my daughters dress like that. And I believe that if it’s not good for the daughters, then it’s probably not good for the mothers; or any women at that. And it’s not because they need to do it for other men, but rather out of self-respect for themselves.

And I’m not alone in thinking this way. There are a lot of women that would agree with me. So it’s time that I be a man, and choose to stand up for what I believe.

A woman’s body is her business, not anyone else’s. If that’s the case, why are many showing it off for every stranger to see?

And don’t get me started on social media. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, are filled with young women dancing around in their leggings and sports bras, showing their stuff to get attention, validation, and empowerment. Sexually provacative? I think it is.

And I’m just being honest when I say that this can be triggering for me. If I posted any of the stuff that I was referring to above, pictures of young women dressed in such outfits, I would get flagged, and rightfully so.

I would be lying to myself and others if I said that this didn’t matter to me. Because it does.

But I also mentioned that it matters less than what I feel about myself.

Because although I believe that some women don’t dress appropriately, and they will not change that, I don’t have to act out in my brokenness by checking them out and lusting after them.

Instead, I can choose to embrace the truth that I am valuable. And I accept and love myself.

When I do that,

I don’t need to get validation by checking out women.

I don’t need to get validation by always being agreeable with everyone on TS; always walking on eggshells to ensure I don’t piss everyone off in order to get everyone to like me.

I don’t need to get validation by using porn, MB, or any other sexual acting out behavior.

And I embrace the conflict that this causes because my recovery program demands that I stop running from conflict and learn to confront and speak up and defend myself.

If I don’t do that, then my sobriety is at stake, because this is all connected.

If anyone wishes to discuss this further, I would welcome it so long as we’re respectful to each other.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks

By the way, day 38 for me, no porn, no MB.
And I didn’t check out any women today.
Not a single one.

6 Likes
2

Moved to a new topic so those who want to discuss further can.

For anyone joining in please keep this in mind, and remember we are all here to give and receive support in our sobriety. If this conversation does not contribute towards that for you, no one is required to participate :pray: :sparkling_heart:

4 Likes
3

Yes I think it is too. Or at least it can be. Whether there is anything ‘wrong’ with that is another issue IMO. I personally don’t think there is, but I can see why it would pose a challenge for someone trying to keep custody of their eyes! I imagine women are the subject of your focus because that’s the gender you’re attracted to.

Just as those of us getting sober from alcohol have to deal with situations where alcohol is present/ acceptable/ encouraged. We can’t stop people walking around drinking or enjoying alcohol. We can only work on our reaction to those situations and take responsibility for how we choose to react when presented with triggers.

Good work on those 38 days, great to see you back!

5 Likes
4

My daughter is 16 and wears short shorts and likes to look good. She’s smart, confident and beautiful. She should be able to express herself however she pleases. I find men that get angry about this topic quite perplexing and it really shows a males insecurity and inability to have self control. It’s definitely one thing you can avoid, you mention tik tok and other platforms but you have to be looking at them to see them, they don’t randomly pop up. I know a guy who hates his wife wearing anything that will make her look appealing to other men yet parades his topless body all over Facebook.

5 Likes
5

Let go, let God friend.

Doesn’t matter to you why, you can control one person in this world and that’s you.

Glad you’re abstaining from you addiction, glad you’re speaking your mind.

7 Likes
6

You’ve raised a tricky topic, Kevin. I get where you’re coming from.

My 2 cents:
Fact: society is in a constant shift. What is considered modest and appropriate is very different now than what it was 30 years ago. Sometimes change is for the better, sometimes not. What is certain, is that anyone trying to promote anything else that is generally acceptable in the now, will have to face fury from everyone else.

Fact: you really can’t control anyone but yourself. As an addict, we try to regain that control. It is mainly the addict who will have to change. You can’t dress up a half naked person as you can’t get rid of a beer isle in a shop.

Fact: Drawing clear lines on what is appropriate is really tricky. Allowing anything for anyone won’t have a good outcome because there are always those who don’t have any limits in themselves, whereas some cultures have very strict and extreme policies on dress codes. I don’t think that’s the way either.

Even if these discussions wouldn’t lead to a concrete change, I think there should be room for such dialogue. There is always room for ALL parties to do some soul searching: why do I feel half dressed people as a threat? Why do I think I should be allowed to my whole cleavage on display for others? Why do I want things to change or remain the same? … And many other questions.

My personal view: I am aroused by men and women, although I am very much heterosexual. I do my best to work on myself to be able to function in the society where sex and nudity are glorified. I have no need to expose certain parts of my body outside the confides of my home. I would be curious to know why people choose to dress in quite revealing clothing other than “I have to right dress however I want”. Surely we all have underlying reasons. I know mine.

6 Likes
7

You highlighted this and then continued to put you reasons against women instead of it being both sexes, i just feel you are the one who has the broken view on what is socially acceptable… Okay for men to wear tight jeans or grey joggers as they are doing in to show their manhood instead of seeing that the person likes how they dress.

wouldn’t let my daughters dress like that. And I believe that if it’s not good for the daughters, then it’s probably not good for the mothers; or any women at that. And it’s not because they need to do it for other men, but rather out of self-respect for themselves.

Again you are being very onesided… Yes son go out in your tight shorts and low tank top because thats what fashion is today but oh no you women shouldn’t do this how dare you have no respect…
Really why can’t women show they are a female without and i’m sorry to say this men making it all sexual. If you were taught that everyone is allowed to express them selves and are not for lusting over that is a behaviour you have learnt.

I could sit here and eaaily agree with alo that you have said, i could easily make the excuses that have made me a sex addict but i own it is me who has to change my unhealthy behaviours not the world…

I suppose i ask that you challenge your thinking to the right of a Ladies body you need to address your thoughts instead of stating what right a female has

3 Likes
13

Society has a duty to teach kids (mainly sons) to treat others with respect no matter what they’re wearing.
They can be taught by example.
It’s pretty paradoxical when guys are discussing what women should do to avoid being treated as an object by men.

10 Likes
15

Like Danni said earlier, this should apply to all sexes, not just females. We are not same but we should be equal.

5 Likes
16

@siand,

Thanks for your help in moving this topic for me.

1 Like
17

That’s exactly what I was trying to communicate in my original share in the daily check in thread. I’m the one with the brokenness. Maybe she’s got some brokenness too, but I’m not all that sure. If she does, I have more.

I don’t know why others felt I was shifting blame from myself to how others were dressed around me.

And I totally agree about addressing the root of my addiction. For me, the root is this toxic shame inside myself that says I’m a horrible, worthless, bad person. And from this root stems the desire to please everyone and notice everyone in a desperate attempt to gain validation.

2 Likes
18

Hi Kevin.

Thank you for being so honest with us about your thoughts here. For me, it looks like you’re shifting blame because I’m reading a lot of judgement for the women and their choice of dress. For instance, assigning them to have “brokenness”.

I think there’s a lot of shame and guilt that we’ve learned to assign to sex, our bodies, other’s bodies. I’ve seen a lot of women be criticized for wearing something that is considered “acceptable” when another woman with a different weight is wearing it. Those comments contributed to my idea as an adolescent that there exists a “right” and “wrong” type of body, especially for women.

It was also really eye opening for me to be with my cousin and see her receive such disrespect for trying to breast feed her child. I have no idea why society gets so bent out of shape by a tit.

Feeling comfortable and not ashamed of my body has taken a long time and I have to continue working on that. I am not ashamed of my body and just like I see more topless men in the summer, yes, for my comfortability, my body is less covered in the summer. It’s just a body, we all have them, they’re all different, I don’t understand why all the judgement.

I don’t have a lack of value for modesty. Just because our ideas of what is modest are different does not mean I am lacking.

I’m reading a lot of judgement for the women’s dress choices in your post and I think that’s the difficult part I’m just not understanding. But I appreciated this post, so thank you. Be well.

7 Likes
19

Isn’t seeing someone as a sex object only about what goes on in a person’s head vs what a person is wearing? I’m physically attracted to both men and women. When I see someone striking I think “Wow, that’s a beautiful human” and move on with my day. I just feel like someone could just as easily be sexualizing me if I’m also wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I had a friend’s dad who would bring binoculars to the beach to get a closer look at women. Is it the responsibility of all the women at the beach to put on a hoodie? From hearing him speak I know that man sexualizes women year round no matter what they’re wearing which is his stuff to address not all the women around him.

4 Likes
20

I can still have my opinions on how people should dress without it impacting my understanding that I’m the one ultimately responsible to how I conduct myself with having custody of my own eyes.

And I do believe that a standard of attire should apply for men as well. And NOT primarily because we’re trying to keep each other from sexual temptation, but rather, by dressing modestly, we’re able reflect a more complete representation of ourselves and the beauty that we possess both inside and out.

But that’s not the direction that this society is going. I predict, within my lifetime, that people will win the right to walk around completely naked. Call it what you want, but I still have to be honest with myself by calling it exhibitionism

1 Like
21

I’m curious to find out why too. And I’ve searched for answers. But I doubt if I’ll get any understanding of this anytime soon.

1 Like
23

Here’s my 50 cents
People should be allowed to dress however the fuck they want, as long as it doesn’t affect the safety of others.

3 Likes
24

Seriously? That will never happen. Just how do we go about teaching kids to respect women and not objectifying them when we have all this porn on the web with hundreds of millions of men viewing it for selfish sexual gratification?

I feel it’s admirable for me that I’m speaking for this. Because you probably are aware of the “hidden” reason why men support women who dress sexy. By speaking out against that, I’m threatening to jeopardize their ample supply of “eye candy”.

25

And as a Christian I believe that our need to cover ourselves stems from Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit which brought evil onto earth, including shame, which prompted our need to cover ourselves. Now I’m not saying that feeling shame is evil, I’m saying that before evil was introduced, nudity was the norm, hence why even walking around dressed however the fuck someone wants isn’t just something that everyone should be allowed to do, but it should even be admired, as it is beating the evil. It takes courage to walk around dressed how someone wants to be dressed

26

I didn’t say that I needed a reason. I just agreed that I was curious.

And is it really that personal of a question? If it is, please explain why.

If not, why are so many avoiding to answer it by responding, “It’s none of my business.”

27

It isn’t my business, yet surely I’m allowed wonder, aren’t I?

3 Likes