I would have to say that living in the supposed “Heartland” of America as a brown woman and hearing people talk, the world, for me, makes no sense whatsoever.
Edit to say: these nice people would never say things to my face though.
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I understand your assertion, but I’m looking at it seperate from the issues even if his supporters are incapable (or unwilling) to do so. I cannot, in any way, fathom how anyone can overlook his bigotry for the sake of their own personal interests.
How can we rely upon a leader who clearly thinks so little of such a large portion of those who he is supposed to serve?
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I’d like to share some love for a down ballot result in my hometown in Southern Michigan - a longtime family friend won her bid for city commissioner and it’s great news for that town! She’s a social justice champion, has worked her entire career for improving the quality of life in this place with a post industrial economy, and it gives me hope. Local elections matter!
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Phew.
I’m talking about this stuff a LOT after promising myself I wouldn’t. It just dawned on me that I’ve been feeling significant tightness in my chest since I woke up at 3AM, feeling really on edge. I’m ducking out for a bit for my own good.
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Take care of you. Please know you’ve put into words what I had trouble doing and I appreciate what you have written so thoughtfully and eloquently. It resonates with my thoughts on the matter.
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I can only imagine 
things are not so divided here, but they are difficult enough for lots of people.
I suppose I just can’t believe that everyone who supports Trump supports everything he appears to stand for.
In the UK, some people vote for very nationalist, far-right parties. There is a really good organisation called Hope Not Hate who investigate and campaign against far right leaders, but also do a lot of work to try and build bridges and understanding between communities.
Reasons to be hopeful 
In the American Civil War era, a lot of moderate, normal white people didn’t want a war that would cost huge numbers of lives, just to change a system that seemed fine to them. Plenty of moderate, normal Germans supported Hitler. French collaborators during WWII were being moderate, normal and sensible, seeing both sides, building bridges. Vulnerable minorities and marginalized groups can suffer a lot, when societies pretend things are ok, if they’re actually not ok. I don’t mean that the current moment in the US is exactly the same as any of those, or that it’s exactly the same as either Putin’s Russia, or Turkey, or Hungary, or China, or North Korea; but there are certain elements of real affinity – such as partisan takeover of judges, attempts to manipulate media, interference with elections, voter suppression, grift, lies, corruption, and coming down hard on vulnerable minorities, immigrants in cages, etc. In those circumstances, I think appeals to moderation and both-sides-ism are quite an extreme position. It’s different in the UK – not ideal, but different.
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And I do understand where you are coming from, I feel the same which is why it’s something I’ve thought more about.
I suppose I wonder, what makes that kind of politics attractive to people? What is going on where someone saying some really horrible stuff seems like the best option? Sometimes I think there is an undercurrent of anger, of disenfranchisement, of anti-elitism. Sometimes I think it’s a question of policy priorities.
Again not knowing enough about US politics to know if these are the key issues there… But in the UK there are a group of people who believe that the free market and individual liberties are the most important thing. To them it is not just about economics, but a moral issue. And anything that seeks to undermine that undermines the very fabric of society.
There are others who believe that immigration is unethical. Not because they don’t want foreigners coming to the country, but because they believe it is a terrible brain drain on different parts of the world, or that we don’t have the capacity to properly integrate and support people, that immigrants are routinely discriminated against or that we should be focusing more on supporting refugees than encouraging economic migration to boost our GDP… They might end up siding with someone they find unpleasant in other regards, if this is a strong moral position for them.
There are some people who believe that abortion is murder. The idea of supporting anyone ‘pro-choice’ could be hugely confusing and upsetting to them (not so much of an issue in most of the UK, but it was only decriminalised in Northern Ireland last year).
That’s obviously much broader than the US election, just my musings on how people might come to vote for people or parties they find uncomfortable, based on conversations I’ve had with friends over the years.
This, I agree with wholeheartedly. Interesting the idea of moderate being an extreme position, I totally get it in the context you set out and appreciate you explaining it so clearly.
I suppose, for the purpose of this forum and building a positive and constructive sober community, finding common ground is important to me. I put my personal opinion here aside more than I might in real life. I guess this is the political discussion thread though…
I do try to be sympathetic with people who have different views to me. It doesn’t mean I agree with those views or endorse them.
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I’ve been saying this over and over-example: blue collar workers not making a lot of money, they care that they got back 500-1,000 dollars of their tax dollars. Others, are independent contractors where the ACA doesn’t work for them. These are reasons why people like Trump. For me, theres thousands of reasons Trump is bad for presidency. For others, there’s more of a narrow focus where only smaller matters that affect their personal lives are what they look at. Everyone has different life experiences and priorities. They don’t give a shit that Trump is a blow hard they already know politicians lie out their asses. The fact that others don’t try and understand why people vote for trump is why our country is so polarized. Yes, he’s a racist asshole but people are voting for him and it’s good to understand the why
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Looks like Wisconsin goes to Biden. Watch for a recount demand on December 1st (first day trump can demand one). In previous recounts in the state only 300 or so ballots were found. Trump is down by 20,000 so there’s pretty much no chance. Now we wait on Nevada and Michigan and to some extent Arizona.
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I think people like Trump because of how comfortable he is with his racism and misogyny, he isn’t politically correct and some people find that more genuine possibly, and probably relate to it more than they care to admit.
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That and people are easily swayed by buzzwords and catch phrases more than actual policy.
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There are reasons for sure. One of the things I find most upsetting is that so many of the reasons seem to me to be based on faith in lies (and spin, but quite often actual lies). Like: from what I can tell from looking at stats and articles about it, things like jobs and the economy have generally been significantly better under Dems than Republicans; and yet the faith in the idea of Republicans as good for the economy seems to persist. Same with healthcare: Trump has no plan, and yet. Of course, people care about jobs and $$, as is reasonable; it’s not that I think people should vote against themselves and their children; but they do it. I get why people are anxious and afraid in this economy, I get why people care about freedoms and rights; I care about those things too. But I don’t think 4 more years of this mess is the answer. There’s a huge communication gap.
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Social media man, it’s the game
Here’s to all my Muerican & Muerica lovin’ friends! A little tension breaker n chillnout in the midst of election turmoil 
I understand trying to have perspective and see things from both sides, that different people have different priorities. I get it. I attempt to do this in every aspect of my life when forming any sort of opinion. The issue here is that addressing bigotry, calling it what it is, and eradicating it is not a matter of opinion.
But let’s rephrase this substantiation of Trump support in a different way and see if it still works.
“I don’t have cancer, nobody in my family has cancer, so we shouldn’t continue funding cancer research”
Doesn’t really fly, does it? That is the exact problem. They are able to overlook the fact that our president perpetuates hatred and that he won’t even acknowledge systemic racism etc because they’re more concerned with their own issues - and I get looking out for yourself and your family, I do - but the fact that addressing racism is even a political issue at all is shameful. Human rights are not negotiable. Donald Trump has made it clear that this , and the people it impacts, is of no matter to him.
One of the principles this country was built on will sound familiar: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
We’re ~250 years in from writing that, and it still is not reality.
And this is just race I’m talking about above, not even touching on the other demographics he has disparaged. In what world is it permissible to mock someone who is disabled? To say that you can grope women as you please? It wasn’t too long ago that Howard Dean’s political career was torpedoed because he let out an excited yelp. And yet Donald Trump can say these things, and it’s forgotten?
For what it’s worth, I hope this doesn’t come off as aggressive or attacking in any way - I have a great deal of respect for you and I understand you are just trying to offer perspective. I just very much disagree with the rationale given.
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Yes to that. It took a hundred years after that was written to abolish slavery. Then there’s the matter of the indigenous people already living on American soil. The USA is build on lies. All men are equal my ass. This is totally not exclusively American BTW. My own country was founded on a 80 year struggle for religious and economic freedom from Spain and the Holy Roman Empire. As soon as it gained its freedom it merrily started building its own empire, enslaving and exploiting whole nations and playing a major role in the transatlantic slave trade.
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