Here’s a video from Alexander Grace. I find his advice on porn rather insightful and helpful for men in general.
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If you feel like this is more of a problem in an addictive sense then Patrick Carne’s book Out of the Shadows is a good resource.
Gathering a physical support system is really helpful. AA, SAA. There’s no shame in getting the help and support that you need.
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Thank you for that. The video was really interesting. I don’t think its an addictive thing although very occasionally as I said if I get the idea in my head I find it difficult not to follow through…nearly always when trying to get to sleep (is that weird?)
For me I just think it’s a weird, unnatural and unhelpful aspect of my life. I also think it’s disrespectful to my wife and I would like to channel my sexual desires into exploring the world of sex with her like Matt suggested. Thanks for all the advice
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Thanks again matt. I can definitely see a lot of truth in what you’ve said there. I would love to explore my sexuality (and of course my wife’s) in a more helpful and wholesome way instead of watching porn. I don’t think it’s an addiction but something I definitely don’t agree with and that’s not inkeeping with who I want to be. Also I think it’s standing in the way of addressing some deep rooted stuff from childhood/teenage years. I think I could become more balanced if I remove it and address it. So thank you again for the great words.
One question I have and it may not be relevant to porn per se but what about lusting after women I see day to day. You mention about managing my media intake…how can we apply this to women i will always see? Obviously it’s evolutionary and I don’t feel I stand a chance without some kind of mind set shift or methodology I can use to actively put those experiences in the places they need to be in my psyche
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Here’s a another video by Alexander Grace that addresses what you’re talking about.
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That is common. Both the alcohol and the porn are avoidance and escape. The question of what you’re feeling, and riding that feeling & learning from it - there is a lot to learn from feelings if you ride them; and in fact they serve a valuable function we’ve been numbing in porn and alcohol! - that question is the valuable one here.
The useful thing about resource groups is there are others there who are in the same shoes & they can help you walk your path; they’ve been there:
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Yes - but the difference between you and a dog is you are the species that built Stonehenge, the Pyramids, and the sacred earthen mounds (not to mention more modern monuments and activities like merry-go-rounds and carousels). Humans aspire: something within our species pulls us to explore realms beyond the physical and reproductive.
Humans’ evolutionary path differs in very significant ways from our more impulse- and instinct-governed fellow planet-dwellers.
(And there’s a whole other discussion as to what intimacy is - our culture tends to reduce it to the sexual; while physical sexuality is one form of intimacy, it is a small part of a much deeper and more metaphysical state.)
You raise a significant item for reflection: we grow. We evolve, individually and as a species (and within that species, along infinite paths). The question therefore becomes: what is your growth? What is your branch reaching out, striving for the sunlight? And what kind of tree are you?
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Yes! This! I feel this is a lot of what is driving me. Base instincts are not a good thing to be slaves to. Thanks Matt. I think I will reread a lot of what is here over the next few days so I can digest it properly
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Thanks for sharing Kev, this is great.
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This video is exactly what I was looking for and more. Really hit home with a lot of stuff. I’m at work atm but will rewatch and reread the messages here so I can take notes for my journaling. Thanks again Kev this is fantastic! Feels like I’ll need to implement this immediately… already at work driving around I’ve managed to control myself not looking at beautiful (or all!!) Women as I tend to
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And some of them offer a lot of good advice that I think more men should implement in their lives.
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I guess I’m only just starting to figure that out now…at 36!! Definitely things worth thinking about
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One of the central problems of our culture generally in the world today is materialism and its cousin, objectification.
A car is an object. I use it. A spoon is an object. I use it. These things are objects; they don’t have consciousness and self-determination.
I see objects and I learn how to use them, and I use them. I can use objects wisely or unwisely, healthily or unhealthily.
The challenge for men is not to see humans - any humans - as objects. The challenge - the task - is to push back against the complacency of our materialistic, objectifying culture, and refuse to reduce someone to “a thing I look at”.
There’s a lot of casual talk about “she’s pretty; you can appreciate a pretty woman right?” (There’s also a lot of casual talk about “just one drink; you can do that right?” A women is not a drink - that’s not my point - but your habit of escaping life through fantasizing about women you aren’t connected to, is the drink.)
The problem is that in your mind there are two categories of “women”: the ones you know, who you don’t objectify (and who because of your current emotional struggle, are in a kind of emotional limbo for you), and the ones you don’t know, who are images, two dimensional, visual stimuli (and therefore not emotionally charged at all). This division is the result of years of porn being a hollow substitute for substantive relationships (with men and women), and the porn conditioning a perception of women-I-see-but-don’t-know as images-for-sexual-arousal-and-gratification.
It will take time to separate yourself from this conditioning of women-I-see-but-don’t-know are images-for-sexual-arousal-and-gratification.
You have permission to do anything safe and legal to do that. In my case, for example, I cut the visit short to one of our city’s summer festivals because I was desperately keeping my eyes to the ground and I found my mind jumping into thoughts about all the young women in summer dresses. This bothered me - the way my mind jumped to that, the way it raced around in that busy space, that park in the summer - and I realized I was not enjoying the festival at all.
I asked my wife if we could return home and take a walk in the forest. I explained that I was uncomfortable. At home, we walked in the forest, just the two of us. I was much more comfortable; I felt safe, and sober.
There is no rule that says you have to be in busy spaces where you are surrounded by visual stimuli that are distressing or distracting for you.
You are starting a journey that is really about your relationship with yourself. For the moment, you don’t really need to look at women you don’t know, either online or in the real world. Instead, take that time to explore who you are. Take some time to read, join a group, take walks; make a crib for your baby. Explore your sober self.
Another thing to consider is developing more friendships with men. When I began this journey I started cultivating relationships with men. I realized I didn’t have any male friends. I started making friendships with the men from my recovery group - as a matter of fact I just left a visit w one of them; and another, we have breakfast every Saturday. I find friendships with men feel safer and more uninhibited and natural for me. I am also meeting men who are like me, thoughtful, reflective. There are many different personalities of men in the world! I certainly don’t neglect the existing friendships I have with women. But I don’t actively cultivate friendships with them if I don’t need to (whereas I feel more comfortable doing that with men).
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Wow! You are very wise about this topic Matt. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Reading this is like waking from the matrix for a third time but for a different reason every time. I thought I had it all figured out but this just spins it all on its head. I thought I was all enlightened and peaceful and loving but it’s laughable how far my perceptions are…or were I suppose. I think I will have a lot more questions. Do you have any reading suggestions or websites I could cement my learning?
I actually just recently felt I was outgrowing some of my male friends and so decided to draw a line in the sand to protect my boundaries and integrity with as much compassion as I could muster (probably not enough) I definitely would like more friends. This topic of self improvement and the REAL understanding to achieve it is fascinating. Vital now I’ve stopped drinking. Its like the reward that was always there but I was scared to find…
I have come to realise that it can be lonely and frustrating (at first) after making strong realisations like this, when you see society and all its flaws. Like going on living in the matrix but you don’t get to ever unplug and have to share along in the jokes.and the banter and “innocent fun”. I know from my first few awakenings that it is lonely but then I tried to embrace one of my favourite phrases “don’t be afraid of the solitude that comes from raising your standards”. I would love to learn more about this topic
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Ooooo that is a belter of a quote! Love it!
Very interesting stuff! Thanks bud
Day 3 for nofap and noporn. When I did it last, I felt weird (bad weird) during and after knowing what I now know… I feel I could really make a decent effort at avoiding it if I made myself accountable through a daily check in/support group but the nofap.com are asking for payment. Could you recommend any good free ones or just on here with you lot?
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Here it is then
Chris (Chrispl, here on the forum) is starting one:
He’s a helpful and thoughtful guy; I expect it would be a helpful space.
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Really struggling today with nofap. I understand logically everything that’s being said here but it just feels like urges…a bad habit. Same as my attitude towards drink not too long ago I suppose. I’m trying to redirect my energy and reread the reasons why porn is bad but it just keeps coming back. I’m hoping they will lessen with time. I suppose because it doesn’t change my brain chemistry in any obvious way (although I know it does really) I’m reasoning with myself.
I’m going to commit to the process and resist it. 2 weeks til wife gives birth, there is lots to be positive about and focus my attention towards. Also in a few months, we should hopefully be able to resume some level of sexual activity together again. It seems like the worst time to try to give it up! But I suppose the best time to give it up is now…
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