I guess I’m only just starting to figure that out now…at 36!! Definitely things worth thinking about
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One of the central problems of our culture generally in the world today is materialism and its cousin, objectification.
A car is an object. I use it. A spoon is an object. I use it. These things are objects; they don’t have consciousness and self-determination.
I see objects and I learn how to use them, and I use them. I can use objects wisely or unwisely, healthily or unhealthily.
The challenge for men is not to see humans - any humans - as objects. The challenge - the task - is to push back against the complacency of our materialistic, objectifying culture, and refuse to reduce someone to “a thing I look at”.
There’s a lot of casual talk about “she’s pretty; you can appreciate a pretty woman right?” (There’s also a lot of casual talk about “just one drink; you can do that right?” A women is not a drink - that’s not my point - but your habit of escaping life through fantasizing about women you aren’t connected to, is the drink.)
The problem is that in your mind there are two categories of “women”: the ones you know, who you don’t objectify (and who because of your current emotional struggle, are in a kind of emotional limbo for you), and the ones you don’t know, who are images, two dimensional, visual stimuli (and therefore not emotionally charged at all). This division is the result of years of porn being a hollow substitute for substantive relationships (with men and women), and the porn conditioning a perception of women-I-see-but-don’t-know as images-for-sexual-arousal-and-gratification.
It will take time to separate yourself from this conditioning of women-I-see-but-don’t-know are images-for-sexual-arousal-and-gratification.
You have permission to do anything safe and legal to do that. In my case, for example, I cut the visit short to one of our city’s summer festivals because I was desperately keeping my eyes to the ground and I found my mind jumping into thoughts about all the young women in summer dresses. This bothered me - the way my mind jumped to that, the way it raced around in that busy space, that park in the summer - and I realized I was not enjoying the festival at all.
I asked my wife if we could return home and take a walk in the forest. I explained that I was uncomfortable. At home, we walked in the forest, just the two of us. I was much more comfortable; I felt safe, and sober.
There is no rule that says you have to be in busy spaces where you are surrounded by visual stimuli that are distressing or distracting for you.
You are starting a journey that is really about your relationship with yourself. For the moment, you don’t really need to look at women you don’t know, either online or in the real world. Instead, take that time to explore who you are. Take some time to read, join a group, take walks; make a crib for your baby. Explore your sober self.
Another thing to consider is developing more friendships with men. When I began this journey I started cultivating relationships with men. I realized I didn’t have any male friends. I started making friendships with the men from my recovery group - as a matter of fact I just left a visit w one of them; and another, we have breakfast every Saturday. I find friendships with men feel safer and more uninhibited and natural for me. I am also meeting men who are like me, thoughtful, reflective. There are many different personalities of men in the world! I certainly don’t neglect the existing friendships I have with women. But I don’t actively cultivate friendships with them if I don’t need to (whereas I feel more comfortable doing that with men).
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Wow! You are very wise about this topic Matt. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Reading this is like waking from the matrix for a third time but for a different reason every time. I thought I had it all figured out but this just spins it all on its head. I thought I was all enlightened and peaceful and loving but it’s laughable how far my perceptions are…or were I suppose. I think I will have a lot more questions. Do you have any reading suggestions or websites I could cement my learning?
I actually just recently felt I was outgrowing some of my male friends and so decided to draw a line in the sand to protect my boundaries and integrity with as much compassion as I could muster (probably not enough) I definitely would like more friends. This topic of self improvement and the REAL understanding to achieve it is fascinating. Vital now I’ve stopped drinking. Its like the reward that was always there but I was scared to find…
I have come to realise that it can be lonely and frustrating (at first) after making strong realisations like this, when you see society and all its flaws. Like going on living in the matrix but you don’t get to ever unplug and have to share along in the jokes.and the banter and “innocent fun”. I know from my first few awakenings that it is lonely but then I tried to embrace one of my favourite phrases “don’t be afraid of the solitude that comes from raising your standards”. I would love to learn more about this topic
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Ooooo that is a belter of a quote! Love it!
Very interesting stuff! Thanks bud
Day 3 for nofap and noporn. When I did it last, I felt weird (bad weird) during and after knowing what I now know… I feel I could really make a decent effort at avoiding it if I made myself accountable through a daily check in/support group but the nofap.com are asking for payment. Could you recommend any good free ones or just on here with you lot?
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Here it is then
Chris (Chrispl, here on the forum) is starting one:
He’s a helpful and thoughtful guy; I expect it would be a helpful space.
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Really struggling today with nofap. I understand logically everything that’s being said here but it just feels like urges…a bad habit. Same as my attitude towards drink not too long ago I suppose. I’m trying to redirect my energy and reread the reasons why porn is bad but it just keeps coming back. I’m hoping they will lessen with time. I suppose because it doesn’t change my brain chemistry in any obvious way (although I know it does really) I’m reasoning with myself.
I’m going to commit to the process and resist it. 2 weeks til wife gives birth, there is lots to be positive about and focus my attention towards. Also in a few months, we should hopefully be able to resume some level of sexual activity together again. It seems like the worst time to try to give it up! But I suppose the best time to give it up is now…
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Are you running from something?
The HALT acronym applies here, just like it does with other recoveries:
Hungry (you need food)
Angry (you need recognition of needs or boundaries)
Lonely (you need someone to see you, fully, nonjudgmentally)
Tired (you need sleep)
Often in our addictions we’re running away from feelings because we don’t know what to do with them. Feelings are useful evolutionary tools - as you can see above, they signal basic human needs - but they aren’t cognitive; they’re more instinctual, and that is scary at times.
What are you numbing with these impulses?
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This is a really stressful time for you. Are you aware of that? Are you giving yourself acknowledgment for that?
Are you asking for the support you need? Do you have family or friends who can help?
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Thanks for the reply Matt. I’m not hungry, tired, angry or lonely that I know of. I’m reaching out to my best friend and wife loads. We talk endlessly about how we feel and being open etc. I just feel horny, I attribute it to the habitual mindset. Could it be as simple as that? Instead of me running?
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Maybe. It’s also enabled by our highly sexualized culture, which fosters this fixation (on sex as a focus), as opposed to the thousands of other worthwhile activities humans can do.
There’s nothing wrong with sex per se; it’s just that it’s just one activity of many, and our culture has deified it in a way that, frankly, is unearned. (There are many other heights the human heart and body can roam.) And the problem when it’s solo in our case in recovery, is that it’s something we see as not contributing to our whole self, our growth, our betterment.
I set a boundary for myself that partnered sexual activity was ok. That means I’m not isolating and running, which was the key problem. Partnered sexual activity includes masturbation with your partner. She doesn’t have to do anything. She is accompanying you on a partnered journey of intimacy and exposure. It is a very intimate act, to share self-pleasure with another person. It takes courage (I know for me it was at first a little strange, but I worked through the nerves & it is an act of connection.) How about you speak with your wife about it?
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In a way this addresses the core problem of porn and/or solo masturbation in marriage, for me at least. We live(d) in two places: one place which is the “me with my wife” and one place which is “me alone”. You can’t really sustain two healthy sexual intimacies. The vibrancy and depth of intimacy is in diving fully into it with your spouse. That includes a sense of risk and exploration and exposure (based on mutual acceptance and enjoyment of course) that feels risky at times. It feels scary to change our script. But it can have profound positive effects on our intimacy.
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THIS! Yes mate. Scary to even consider being thay vulnerable but I can definitely be that vulnerable with her…a lot of truth in there. I need to have the chat with my wife for sure. Thanks again Matt
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No problem. Keep an open mind and remember: this is the two of you exploring life, one day at a time. It’s your life and your relationship, and it’s as deep and rich, vulnerable and mutually supportive as you make it. Enjoy the process 
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Thanks for helping me out with the project.
I’m grateful for Your input 
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@Best_Me Alex, You mentioned earlier, that You’re interested in tools helpful in recovery from addiction.
I think helpful tool in that purpose is to do the inner child work.
Such work enables person to heal his emotional self, which is a major role in resolving addiction problem.
Check out this book, that I recommend on the subject of inner child work:
In this book You have exercises and meditations, which can help to heal Your inner child, resulting in getting back in healthy contact with Your emotional self 
I wish You all the best brother
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I understand how this feels. Even though I know my behavior has been destructive, and I know the harm that it causes, I still find myself compelled to seek after it. That’s how it’s forced me to seek after more answers, and to look deeper inside myself to find out what’s really going on.
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Thank you Chris I will definitely add this to my list!! I recently watched Rocketman, the film on Elton John and they touch on this idea of healing the inner child. I think this is correct for most people, and particularly rings true for me. Thank you mate I will get around to this and come back to you. It may be a while as my reading list is horrendously long and time to read seems to be getting shorter! I guess this should take priority though so it does jump the queue!!
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