Number of days ###…but thought about going on zero

I have intrusive thoughts about giving up sobriety so often that I think I need sometime to just tell someone. I obviously don’t want to. But some days it just hit me so hard. I work in an hospital and I just got bored for a moment about a story someone was telling me, and it was straight automatic in my head: it wasn’t even a thought of “damn I need a drink”, it was just some flashes of me, chugging beers after beers. It happens to me still sometime when I just don’t want to be where I am. The thing is, after those images popped out, it’s like I’m doomed for the rest of the day. I almost have to cancel everything because I get to scared that if I continu to push myself I am going to relapse. So I’m half devastated by that thought and half totally craving that drink. It’s like the only thing that will end this duality inside me is to drink. And it’s not like in my thoughts I have some magical thinking that it would be fine: even in my fantasy I am totally aware that this could ruin my life. Even in my fantasy I know I would totally not control my drinking. In fact, my fantasy IS to chug non-stop until I pass out. So of course I KNOW I can’t have ONE drink because this would equally mean non-stop till who knows what…

And I am just rambling. Well, recovery is hard.
I guess sometime we all have to vent a bit.
Day 422, thoughts about going on zero, but will stand up for another day, again.

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This was honestly really comforting to read as someone who’s going through the same exact thing. Well not exactly the same as my d.o.c. is coke not alcohol but It’s like a constant intrusive thought of just “fuck it one time won’t hurt” or just constantly daydreaming about it all day and once my mind thinks about it once it’s all I think about for the rest of the day. The only thing that keeps me from not going fucking insane amidst all the intrusive thoughts and daydreaming is working and quite literally anything that will keep me preoccupied like video games, etc.

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Oh you’re not alone. And yes I think when that arrives there’s just not that much we can do. I do work around it when I’m feeling better, but when I am right in that fantasy or craving or wtv how we call that, I just have to get through it anyhow.
So for now movie it will be.

Please do. I’m learning that recovery isn’t easy, not for day 2, day 22, or day 422, but we have to keep on keeping on. Always find someone who will listen, or come here and talk it out. We can’t keep these thoughts and feelings inside, or they’ll eat us up. Sending you strength. :purple_heart:

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Imagine the day counter as being a score in a video game

You want the highest score possible

The more days you put behind you, the better you will feel.

The first 365 days are the toughest…and you just may have cravings even after that.

I can tell you, from my experience, that it does get better. Over three years sober…I did a few things, kind of unorthodox

I bought myself an AA necklace right after I stopped drinking. This necklace is usually awarded to people upon completing a year of sobriety. I used the necklace to remind myself not to drink.

I forced myself to walk down the beer, wine, and liquor aisles and keep telling myself not to buy any alcohol

I think it wasn’t until I got to 2.5 years of sobriety that I realized that I would be able to continue said sobriety indefinitely.

Good luck, and best wishes!

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Thank you.
The more I feel the craving and resist them, the more I understand my underlying needs.

These past couple of weeks, since September, the craving I had have manifested themselves in pretty much the same fashion each time (fatigue or boredom → intrusive thoughts about drinking or some obsession → avoidance → depression).

I also coped with them pretty much the same way, most of the time retreating home and eat junk.

But recently I’ve come to realize that didn’t help. Well, it did by “pushing the relapse away” and by getting through the day.

What help me is to feel. Feel and connect with what is expressed in that feeling. Sometime it’s easier than other. And I think this fall especially I am in a big chunk of underlying need, something deep that I am working through therapy and that is just coming out slowly, within flashes and bribes of significances.

But it’s much more easy to say and write it when I feel ok. Because when it hit me again, I could just be falling right back at day zero and some part of me would love it.

Those days it’s all about pushing it to the next day again, and if I have some mental and affective space to feel what’s inside that craving, then I go for it.

Who said it would be easy?

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There is your gold!

I definitely went thru periods of wanting to end the pain of having to feel all this stuff I had been drinking and using at for decades. I had to get seriously gentle with myself and allow myself to feel it all. Anxiety ramped up big time at a year and a half and my emotions were everywhere. There is just so much healing and working thru I needed to do and it sounds similar for you.

I am so glad you can write it out when feeling more up…journaling has helped, does help, me a lot. Getting it out however possible…movement works well for me too.

The space between the first year and year two was challenging. Just ‘being’ sober felt more natural after a couple of years and once I was knee deep into recovery, not just sobriety.

Thank you for sharing your experience, it is helpful to remember why we fight so hard for sobriety and a healthy healing life.

Sending light love and strength your way. :heart:

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That’s spot on. I’m glad you’re here posting, it’s helpful for you I’m sure and I know reading this stuff is helpful for me as well. Thank you.

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So I am pretty much right there again. Fatigue, after what, 5h of work. I had to leave and come home because I was starting to think that I could go buy some booze to put in my coffee mug to finish the day. Dammit. Now back home and craving tall beers. So yeah I come back here and read my last posts and people’s tips, but while in it it’s pretty hard. You know the drill…
I just can’t imagine myself loosing all those days for that craving related to my fatigue.
It’s like I can’t let myself take it easy because I should be working… but I can’t because I’m too tired… so I think about drinking instead, like it would make it all go away…
If I think about that , in this way, it seems to me that this craving is actually a sign that I have to take care of myself in some way. But that self care can’t be drinking, because it would do the contrary. I just coped so many times with alcohol to compensate my needs and my feelings that now it’s all that pops in mind when my I get those feelings.
Writing it helps a bit, but still , damn craving.
Thought it’d be better around 430 days. There might be some more work to do around those feelings underlying sobriety I guess. Recovery they say…

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Hey buddy! Just wanted you to know I’m rooting for you. I don’t have much to offer that you don’t already know. I will say that when I feel itchy or stagnant I try to add something to the old toolbox. Keep things fresh. Also, watch out for that SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder). I’ve been really fatigued myself and need to get out my light box.

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Not because it would do the contrary. You cannot drink, because you’re an alcoholic.
My experience is that we have to totally exclude the thought of alcohol from our lives, so that it cannot make its way to our minds where we have to defeat these thoughts one by one. For a long time I wanted to solve addiction by brain, but I guess trusting the rule that alcohol doesn’t exist for us is much more important than logic. From time to time our brain turns against us and tries to trick us into active addiction. But we can’t fight addiction by a brain that is controlled by addiction, we can’t fight it by a mind that creates our addictive thoughts. It can do whatever it wants with us if it comes to logic, it’s got us. The only thing it’s powerless against is the blind trust/belief/acception of the fact that booze is erased from our lives, so when the brain wants to refer to it, it finds nothing.

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Hey Tomek, nice to see you.

But sincerely I don’t see how that is possible? Is not the impossibility of removing the intrusive thoughts of drinking (in its multiple possible diversity of forms) exactly the main reason why people relapses? Or more importantly, isn’t the thought of drinking that leads to drinking the main point of being alcoholic?

For me craving doesn’t come into some physical sensation and neither within a romancization of a life with alcohol. Like you say, for me it’s clear alcohol have no place in my life. I can say that right now because I feel fine and I am not affected by a craving (usually “triggered” by my mental fatigue or some kind of anxiety/feelings). But when I am into a state where I don’t totally control my brain, like you say, and I feel sad or anxious or else, it does want to find automatically a way to feel better. So because I’ve been using for years when I felt this way, I have no control over the direct association my brain made with alcohol as a way to feel better.

So I do use some kind of logic to put it out of the equation : if I drink, then it would be worse. It’s the only logic I know that I am allowed to thrust in those moment of craving and sadness.

But my main weapon isn’t logic. It’s feeling. It’s just so hard to do when you’re bombed by thoughts of doing everything to avoid the feelings. But after my automatic and irrational reaction, when I do pause for some time, I do start to feel and find a way out.

Like yesterday. I wrote my post then I went in the bath, bring some books that I like then I realized I was SO tired, I fell asleep in the bath then moved into my room and slept for 1:30 hours in the end of afternoon. But before that, when I was just invaded with multiple thoughts going anywhere to find a way to fix my state, I didn’t know I was tired that much. I didn’t know because it is still hard for me to feel correctly myself and my needs. I used to have cravings when I felt everything: when I was hungry, when I was happy, when I was sad, when I had work to do and felt pressure, when I felt alone , etc.

All this to say, drinking is out of the equation, but the thoughts of drinking are still invading me sometime. I try to see what’s underlying those thoughts because every time it’s because I need something and I just don’t know what it is yet. Like you say my brain is tricking me by giving me those images of me chugging beers, but that’s out of the question. The real question to ask is what do I need? And of course it’s not alcohol ! But if my brain is manifesting that much of power to make me want to drink, my homeostasis might be somewhere imbalanced because when I do feel good or just fine those thoughts are never there.

Good reflection, like alway, thank you. I hope you’re fine.

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I had some rough spells with cravings up until life really started kicking my ass … loved ones dying, health issues and so on… much to my suprise the last thing i wanted when going through that shit was alcohol. I had always figured If i was gonna slip it’d be for something like that but instead it actually strengthened my sobriety.

Anyways i was about 20 months sober when that all started happening and up to that point i went through some really rough spells with thoughts and cravings. I made it by committing to staying sober just for today, not thinking about the future and remembering just how bad the drinking life was for me, the shitty things i did, how shitty i felt, the fact that i considered suicide, the fact i had a plan for it.

Life is gonna be life, some feelings are shitty as hell to sit through. Our brains have been rewired by addiction, sometimes they go crazy and it’s hard to snap out of. I’m pulling hard for you. Sorry for rambling

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I had long term sobriety. almost ten years.

During that time I would have a lot of thoughts about drinking. They came in every form imaginable.

“I should have a drink to celebrate. I should have a drink to drown my sorrow. I should go to that bachelor party and let loose. I should have a drink because I’m an adult and that’s what adults do. I should have a drink because I just want to be normal.”

I never acted on those thoughts. I did come close. I did stupid shit like going to a bar for lunch, or dinner, ordering a shot just to look normal, and not drinking it.

The first five years of my sobriety I got my life back. I started a business, I got married. Had kids, bought my dream property. Life was good. I gave the credit to sobriety. It helped me shut down those “I should have a drink” thoughts.

Then life on lifes terms happened. My son died of an illness. The wife relapsed and did things I couldn’t live with. Divorce. Her moving far away with the kids. The economy crashed. I lost everything.

I had a lot of drinking thoughts during that time. I knew better than to drink. My state of mind was volatile. I knew Id black out and do something stupid that I would regret forever.

After the dust settled and life started getting better again, I had survived all of that sober. I felt as though Id never drink again. What could possibly derail me now?

The desire to be normal did. Around eight years sober It really started getting me. I ended up drinking at nine years, ten months.

I wish I hadn’t. It was way harder to get grounded back into recovery than I could ever imagine. That decision took me on a ride I wasn’t expecting or prepared for. It nearly killed me several times. I’m still here because I’m really lucky!

It wasnt worth it.

I feel very grounded in recovery today. A drink feels far away. I still have intrusive thoughts about drinking. At my 18 month milestone, I cried because I was still having thoughts about drinking. I just wanted it to stop.

Redirecting them has gotten easier. Sometimes I laugh at them because it feels better than crying.

Hang in there!

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Dang that shit hit hard man. I don’t feel “normal” and I could see how that could creep in and take hold. Thanks for that post.

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Wow.
I had to pause a bit because your backstory is really moving.

And I, like @Dan531 , have been strike by the “being normal” part.

I’ve been having the reflection yesterday that, when we have a disease, could it be substance use disorder or mental health’s problems or even medical pathologies , we often have thoughts like “I should be able to…” , “why can’t I do this”, “why can’t I just be normal”, “how can I be better/normal while suffering from X disease”…

But we forget that the disease is actually this: not being able to be “normal” in relation to the domain of our disease. Like an alcoholic does not have a “normal” relation to booze. Like suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder is not being “normal” with the process of thoughts and the managing of action and coping strategies. Like having an history of self-harming is not being “normal” when it comes to generates ways of coping with suffering. Like having incurable cancer and being in chemotherapy isn’t being “normal” in relation to the energy we can have and to the motivations to do things.

Wanting to drink for any reasons is not normal. Not being able to think about something else than drinking when you’re hurting is being alcoholic.

Of course it doesn’t mean that “underlying the disease” there isn’t other explanations. But it does mean we are suffering from addiction in a sort of way.

So I think it’s very insightful to think that going back to normal and not being able to without ruining our life is actually the principal symptom of the disease and at the same time the brain trick we all get when we think and wish we could be normal… sound like a vicious circle , but considering the circle of addiction I don’t think it’s irrational to think of it this way.

Anyway, I’m still rambling.
But it does help to communicate. I thank you all for your time and shares ,

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"It’s like the only thing that will end this duality inside me is to drink. "

Souix War Chief Sitting Bull once said:

“Inside be are two warring dogs. One is good and peaceful, the other mean and angry”

Someone asked him which dog will win, to which he replied:

“The one I feed most will win”

This duality exists in all who are battling to gain and maintain sobriety. There’s a sober mind, and a drinking mind. The mind that is fed most will win. Feed that side that desires sobriety, and sobriety is what you shall have.

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I disagree. Thoughts, even cravings, are learned behaviors and have strong triggers. They will occur from time to time, and the thought of escaping difficult situations or enhancing pleasant ones are natural for people like us who have a lifelong history of behaving just so.

In AA, there is a lot of talk about a spiritual experience - either having one as the foundation of one’s sobriety or having one as the result of using the 12 step program of recovery. But what does that mean? In the book “Alcoholics Anonymous”, in Appendix II, it is defined as :

The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms

The spiritual experience, then, is really a healing and a transformation of fundamental ideas, attitudes and behaviors, a growth from a life centered on alcohol and getting high into a life centered on service to others and contemplation of the beauty all around us and permeating us.

These unwelcome thoughts and cravings can be considered the natural result of an ongoing obsession with alcohol, particularly if they are very intrusive and debilitating. Having them does not mean your sobriety is incorrect or of lesser value. Even one of the co-founders of AA, Dr. Bob, was tremendously bothered by such thoughts and cravings for years into his sobriety. “Unlike most of our crowd, I did not get over my craving for liquor much during the first two and one half years of abstinence. It was almost always with me.” His response was to throw himself all the more into service, treating alcoholics at the hospital where he practiced.

On the subject of relapse, if you want opinions, this place is rife with them! What proves often to be a short dry spell of less than a month or two is incorrectly called a relapse by many. There really wasn’t a sufficient period to allow a healing to take place, and the “relapse” was really just a continuation of the original drinking. I never relapsed, I just went back to drinking because the consequences had resolved (the heat was off) or I had gathered enough emotional and physical resources to go back even harder than ever.

The true relapse, a return to a state of illness after years of health, does happen and has been described by several people on this forum. The common thread is a subtle and growing change in perspective and orientation, away from participation in sobriety community toward increasing isolation, growing denial, and eventually a return to illogical thinking and self-harmful actions. But I’ve never heard of true relapse as a response to a single event or a single thought, or even a succession of thoughts. Events and intrusive, insane, thoughts can and do start impelling the sufferer down the road toward relapse, but these are never (in my experience) sufficient of themselves to correlate directly and immediately to drinking.

For me, AA is a form of cognitive behavior therapy - we change our actions which changes our thoughts, which changes our emotional responses which changes our actions. Your trouble with intrusive thoughts seems to be pretty severe and particularly strong. I hope you find the effective treatment for them. A contented serene sobriety is what we really want. And I have seen so many people achieve it that I know it is possible for anyone.

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It is a total mindfuck within ourselves.

It doesn’t help that alcohol is so glamorized either. Pretty much everyone in my realm drinks. Work especially. Work consumes a lot of my time. My boss drinks and our recent addition to our crew drinks. I used to drink with them. They are both respectful that they don’t offer me drinks. If I was to ask for one I know they wouldn’t say no.

I have a sober crewmember too, which is helpful.

I have my safety zone which is home. No alcohol allowed, and I usually check in here right when I get home like I am now.

If I see them having fun, it could easily trigger me into making myself miss it, or think I’m missing out.

I know them well enough to know that one of them isn’t really having fun. He is my best friend. He is an alcoholic. He is just not done yet. He still complains about all the same stuff because nothing changes if nothing changes.

My boss had quit drinking when I started fishing with him, but after three months started again.

He is is alcoholic too. He has been keeping his shit together pretty good. Sometimes he makes it look fun. I know its temporary. I’ve already seen the dark side of it a little. I’ve been where he is at. Making it look good on the outside.

Looking at the whole picture with both of them makes it unattractive.

Thinking I’m missing out was a huge factor on my relapse. I started chainsaw carving. I entered competitions. At the end of the day the carvers drank beer. I didn’t. I felt awkward and out of place.

I had been divorced for a couple of years too. Dating played a big part in me convincing myself I was missing out.

I’m back in the getting my life back phase of recovery. Things are going really well for me because I quit drinking. It helps make drinking less attractive.

I still have the fear too. My last couple of drunks were horrible. That helps.

Over time the fear fades. Thats where working with others is helpful. It reminds us.

Everyday someone starts a thread about how much fun they didn’t have when they relapsed and all the horrible side effects that came with it.

This place makes it really easy to stay focused on why I quit. 24/7.

Its part of feeding the recovery wolf like @Yoda-Stevie talked about. We have to remind ourselves how much fun we weren’t having.

Chapter 3 of AA big book describes it perfectly. Its a great reminder!

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I didn’t answers to you guys the other day @Bootz @JasonFisher & @SinceIAwoke , but I red and re-read your message with attention a couple of time. Thank you I’d come back to them in moments like right now.

Today’s hard. I guess I need to vent a little.
I got Teeth’s pain and that’s rough, adding on my usual low fall mood.

I’m not so sure I understand this

First I’m not really feeling well right now so maybe I just don’t see it. But just logically, if there was no intrusive thoughts of drinking, there would be no drinking. Thoughts precede actions so what is really hard for me is having those thoughts. So I don’t know what exactly is disagreeable in my sentence. I know these thoughts are strong and learned from years of reinforcing them - it doesn’t mean they aren’t what I am fighting against and aren’t exactly the reason why I would pick up if I were to drop my toolbox and lost my focus…

I hear you about taking from those thoughts and giving to others instead. And that’s what I do, that’s pretty much my job actually.
But some days it’s just hard.
Like today. I can’t really do much with those thoughts today. Kinda helpless, but also kinda just accepting (at least I’m trying to) that they are there.
It’s another day of pushing through until tomorrow.

But I know I can’t drink. Because the reason I don’t drink it’s not because drinking would be in conflict with my life. It’s because if I drink my life would be in the way of my drinking. I can’t have one drink because all I want is to drink to forget and numb myself. There is no such thing as one drink to relax for me.

Anyways, just needed to empty my bag of shitty thoughts maybe.
I hope you’ll have a good day.

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