I don’t even know what my higher power is
Have you ever read the Book of Proverbs, in the Bible? If you haven’t, I highly recommend it. It’s not a religious book. I don’t think God is mentioned at all. There’s 31 chapters. I read one every day.
It was written by King Solomon. For the purposes of that writing, his higher power was “Wisdom”.
Other scriptures say that when Solomon became king, God promised to bless him with whatever he asked, be it riches, or fame, or power. Solomon asked for “wisdom”, and it was given to him…along with all the other things that wisdom brings…peace, earthly wealth, respect.
It’s OK if you don’t want to acknowledge a spiritual being (or imaginary being) as your HP. If you seek to be wise, let Wisdom be your HP, and seek it. If you seek peace, let Peace be your HP, or Love, or Kindness, or Compassion. These are all a good place to start, and you might come to realize they are all facets of my HP, or not, if your path leads elsewhere.
Try “Wisdom”, and try Proverbs. Even my agnostic friends tell me they can’t argue with what Proverbs teach, and there’s a lot of Wisdom to learn. In addition to scripture, I read Sun Tzu, and Musashi, all kinds of stuff.
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says the dude who thinks it’s okay to drink. AA actually works for millions of people. I can definitely see why people won’t/can’t go and that’s cool, but you seriously need to knock that shit off. You keep talking about the “stats” but don’t provide any. Quit trying to steer people away from a program that could potentially save their lives, especially when you don’t have the slightest idea how to quit drinking.
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… you don’t have them. Because it’s nearly impossible to study a group in which the only means of reporting is self reporting.
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I think if someone is asking for help, the best way to communicate is to layout options, regardless of your feelings or opinions.
Like: Theres many options available such as rehab, AA, SMART, this forum, counseling. There’s no right way for everyone…
You should realize that while you personally dont identify as an alcoholic, most of us do and while you believe that YOU dont need a program to abstain others may, without commentary of success rates.
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I’ve done a lot of recovery programs and I find a benefit to all of them. Every single thing I’ve tried, from SMART, to therapy, to AA and outpatient all have helped.
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@mickeysabbath, I think you get a bunch of push-back, because 1) your bias against abstinence, and 2) your bias against AA is pretty clear. You try to soften it, but you do this through equivocation.
Have you tried AA? I haven’t. I admit it. I haven’t any bias against it. I don’t knock it, and I don’t herald it either. Why? Because I have no direct experience. Stats? Here’s a stat: 9 out of 10 people, make up 90% of the population. The stat is meaningless. AA has been around a loooong time. The reason why, is that it works. Maybe not for everyone, as you rightly point out, but it does work for a lot of people. Same with SMART, and Rehab, and any of the many programs out there. If the didn’t, they’d die.
If I have a bias for anything, it’s for self-discipline. I have a bias for “the will”. But I acknowledge that my way isn’t for everyone. As a matter of fact, it’s for that very few who happened to be wired like me.
Sometimes it’s not what you are trying to say, but how you say it. Presentation is half the meal. I can cook you the most magnificent steak, perfect potatoes, fantastic asparagus. But if I serve it to you on a trash can lid, rather than a china plate, would you want to eat it? Of course not. I can argue that the meal is delicious, and you’d tell me “that may be, but I ain’t eating it off a shit-can lid”.
I see you trying to add to the discussion, and encourage you to do so. You might want to ask a few more questions and get input, rather than dive right in with your views, at least until you get your sea legs.
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Never once have I experienced shame from AA. Makes me sad, that you have. So many meeting, actually all of them, have left me recharged and ready for life.
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My doctrine doesn’t come from research either. It comes from experience. Same as AA.
Do you think Musashi looked at “studies and stats” when he worked to become the greatest swordsman in a country of great swordsman? No. He looked at what others were doing, was willing to try different things, until he found what worked for him. Then he defeated Japans best swordsman with a boat oar.
I think you are projecting. Honor is a gift we give ourselves. Shame a curse we give ourselves.
Here’s it in a nutshell. I have been here daily, for almost a year. I know who is strong in their sobriety, and how they are going about walking their path. Some use a program. Some don’t. Some are grinding along, destroying every obstacle, and helping encourage others. Some are struggling, but for the most part making it.
Here’s another thing I’ve seen over the last 10 months. Every now and then, someone comes in here, new, like you. They claim that they’ve cracked the code. They’ve found the secret. They got the “sobriety hack”. They don’t last long here, because they are spreading what we in martial arts call “BullShito”.
The “BullShito” is strong in your posts, and in a fight against addiction, it can lead someone to an ass-kicking.
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There’s so much awesome going on in this post I can’t even begin to quote it all.
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Pretty sure most will echo this, I am the one usually telling people to talk nicer to each other…the one saying be nice and consider the others point of view. But for once, i will even break my rule.
I have no idea what your agenda is. But its apparant you have zero respect for what this place is about. Your advice is dangerous. It has zero buisness being here. This place is about being sober. AA is not the horrible thing you paint it, true it isn’t for everyone. And the way you throw shame around…you either need to figure out what shame means…or tells us what you are ashamed of.
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As long as that point of view isn’t telling people to go drink. Or making up bullshit facts and then not citing them.
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If you read that as a threat, please flag my post. I believe the mods will conclude that it’s a lack of reading comprehension ability on your part, rather than a threat on mine.
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My money is on you meeting the banhammer. I’d wager 2-3 more posts. There’s longitudinal studies that back up my assertion, and can be found on a myriad of threads here.
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Your story not only seems to have changed, but how you are typing and responding has subtly changed. What is your goal for being here?
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“. I’m not trying to say that abstinenece is bad, in any way. I just think it’s not a long term solution for most of us, and by emphasizing sobriety, we’re suggesting there’s something wrong even when we use in a way that’s not harmful. For example - i didn’t drink for 60 days, then had a very stressful event and had two beers - and now its been a week and haven’t had anything to drink. I think we should celebrate the responsible use, and breaking old habits, etc. Not just say that i was sober, then wasnt, then was again. Getting to where we don’t fear using again, because we know we won’t use harmfully, is important to those of us who are not going to be abstinent for the rest of our live”
That doesnt read like abstinence…again…changing story…
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Then talk about how tough it is…for YOU. ASK others how they manage to do it.
Quit using the “most people”, or the royal “We” when commenting.
You don’t have to be that one onion ring in the large fries. But you are trying to be.
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He’s not threatening you with violence. He’s saying that if someone struggling were to take your advice then they would likely get an “ass kicking” by their own addiction because it’s not good advice. Please correct me @Yoda-Stevie if I am incorrect.
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I do not use AA, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to go around telling other people they should not. Humble yourself.
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