How do you fight it all though?
I feel like the urge to have sex comes for me after every few months. I can’t escape it. How do you do it?
In the other thread where I asked, you described lust in this way (I’m moving the conversation over here to keep it on one thread):
So the lust is the craving. Kind of like craving sweets or dessert foods. Objects.
People are not objects. Lust makes people into objects. Lust makes you make yourself into an object (in my case, when I used to “act out”, I would use my body as an object for my lust).
For me I found the problem was more fundamental, more psychological. The dopamine is a physical thing - it’s a hormone - but the dopamine is in response to the lust. I had to dig deep to displace the lust, to get it out of the driver’s seat. I had to acknowledge that I had no power over lust - every time I let it into my life, it takes control and the results are negative - and I had to make a list of the problems caused for me and others by my lust, and then work on making amends for those. I had to more fundamentally change my way of living, to start from the heart, instead of from the body. (Trying to control my physical body was not working, because the physical body was not the cause.)
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Very well said Matt.
Thank you.
Are you now able to control your lust and sexual desires?
Is there such a thing as a healthy sex life for an Addict? Thanks
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Control is not possible for me. I have an allergy to lust in the same way a person allergic to peanuts has a deadly allergy to peanuts. The risk of anaphylaxis is not worth the temporary and optional feeling of eating peanuts. There are many other things I can eat, other than peanuts; and for me, there are many other things I can do with my time, other than lust. (Volunteering, attending recovery meetings / doing recovery work, exercise, hiking with my wife, cooking, working, visiting family members and friends, etc etc - I have a full life.)
Sex is optional. If I have it within my boundaries - which is with my wife, without lust - it is a moment to savour. If not, it is ok, and I do not miss it, because it is optional.
Yes, but in my case I could not find it until I understood and accepted, with gratitude and peace, that sex is optional and that most of the sexual activity I did when I was in my addiction (including masturbation) was crossing unhealthy boundaries.
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How do I fight the self hate, depression and so on… I make sure to share with others to help get out of self and to gain a better perspective. Also, finding people with the same struggles, that have been through the mid and made it out clean, and by that I mean others that have more sobriety and experience that I can learn from and be encouraged by. Also, learning myself, triggers, character defects and tools that I can intentionally put into practice.
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Beautifully said. How many days are you along in your sobriety?
I need to get back and build the days.
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Thank you. Yes it is good to find those that have been through what we are going through. That’s the one thing I love about this group.
We are all at different places in our recovery but are all fighting the same fight.
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At the moment, 27
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Congrats on 27. I don’t feel so bad anymore. I will get there too in about 4 weeks.
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It is a journey 
Theres no need to feel bad one way or the other. We all only ever have today, whether we have 27 days or 27 hours or 27 years. What matters is what we do to get a helpful mindset and helpful connections and helpful behaviour today.
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Thanks Matt. What was your relapse 27 days ago? Porn? Masturbation? You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel comfortable. Thank you
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I don’t remember. I also think it doesn’t matter. The problem is lust - the lust mindset, and lust patterns of thinking and emotion - and the behaviours (masturbation, watching porn etc etc) are superficial symptoms of that. There’s really no difference between them for me.
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Do you attend SAA meetings? I went to one today online.
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I attend SA (www.SA.org). I’ve never been to an SAA meeting but in my early recovery I did study a book series in my recovery group that was by Patrick Carnes, who was involved in starting SAA.
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What are your guy’s view of separating Porn use as it’s own addiction and Masturbation to Orgasm as another?
Like keeping track of your use of each of them separately. I have them on separate day trackers for now.
I ask because i eventually get to the point where i can stay away from porn, but i keep coming back to masturbation to orgasm.
P.S
I relapsed to just MO today.
Starting back at day 1 for that.
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I don’t separate them. For me I have to be very careful about “hidden bottles”. Alcoholics will sometimes hide alcohol around the house, “just in case”. For me, I view separating P and MO as being a hidden bottle, a secret stash where I can indulge my addiction.
For me I define my addiction as lust. Porn use, and also masturbation and orgasm by myself, are both included in my definition of lust.
https://essay.sa.org/article/august-2024-what-is-this-thing-called-lust/
There was a stage in my journey in which I did separate them. And it worked for me at the time. But now, I’ve chosen to not separate them. I wouldn’t discourage someone from keeping a separate tracker. SAA, for instance, doesn’t compel every member to avoid MB. Each member decides his/her own boundaries.
This is from my own experience and everyone is different.
I would not separate the two.
I would not say it’s okay to not watch porn but okay to masturbate.
As in it’s not okay to do either for me. One leads to another or another leads to the other.
Usually watching porn leads to masturbation or acting out.
Masturbating leads people back into lust.
Again for me personally, masturbation involves me thinking of some lustful thoughts about someone or some imagery that I have in my mind. It involves a form of lusting.
Also I would also recommend that if someone cannot control their sexual urges to the point where it puts them or others in danger (I.e. stds, acting out inappropriately, developing porn addiction) then I would highly recommend that they masturbate instead of engaging in the more risky behaviour.
But to each their own.
My recommendation to you would also be to try and not masturbate either.
Believe me the longer you go without it, the less and less you will really need it.
Just my thought process.
Rape. The word you’re looking for here is rape. And that is a violent crime that has absolutely nothing to do with lust, sex addiction, or sexual urges. Rape is about control and sex addiction should never ever be used as an excuse for it or classed as ‘risky behaviour.’
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@Amy30 I have a few thoughts on this. I don’t want to start an argument, just present a possible alternative view.
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I’m guessing @sober26 used non-consensual sex rather than rape as they deemed it to be less triggering to themselves and/or other sex addicts on this thread.
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I believe that there are indeed sex addicts who have raped people. I do not say this to condone the behaviour, but I believe they exist.
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I think that the non-consensual sex/rape comment can be interpreted differently to how I think you’ve read it.
Consider a sex addict going to hook up with someone, possibly anonymously, possibly without telling anyone where they have gone. I would suggest this puts the addict at a pretty high risk of being raped, assaulted, even killed. -
I think classing rape as a risky behaviour is wrong, so I agree with you on that point. But if you consider my point above, an anonymous hookup is a risky behaviour that could lead to rape/injury etc
Just my thoughts.
@LifeWarrior135 As for the original question about separating abstinence from porn and masturbation. When I started recovery, I thought I could separate the two.
However, as I’ve continued on I think they are (for me at least) very much intertwined. My masturbation was something I did with porn, with cybersex, with all my acting out, inner circle behaviours.
Early on I tried masturbating without porn, it just became masturbating while fantasizing about porn or pornified fantasies. I also found that the masturbating put me on a slippery slope back to porn etc.
I’m currently on 195 days sober. I started this “streak” and decided it was too much of a risk to my sobriety to allow myself to masturbate so I put it in my inner circle. Now, I don’t know if I really want to masturbate anymore. Is it really worth it for 10 minutes of pleasure if it risks my sobriety?
As with all these things, it’s different strokes for different folks, you have to figure out what is gonna work for you. But I would say, think about whether you’re letting your “addict brain” trick you into deciding that masturbation is okay because it knows it’ll lead you back to porn…
Apologies for the mega essay. I will return to lurking! 
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