Who are we to say what is helpful and what is not? I think we all know that sobriety does not fit into a neat little box and what is helpful for one person is not helpful for another. I love the diversity of opinion, and approach, on this forum. We have rules to prevent attacking posts and the like, but I think sometimes posts that, on the surface, appear less than unbridled support and optimism have their place so long as they are not breaking forum rules. I feel like diversity of opinions has itās place so long as itās not breaking forum rules. I also feel like this forum is as supportive, if not more, than most other recovery communities, virtual or otherwise, and that even still, it is probably not going to be a good fit for 100% of people.
When people leave the forum because they feel unsupported because of an interaction they just had, it is a pretty safe bet to me that said interaction was not helpful. And this has happened many times.
Gonna play devilās advocate because thatās just who I am and what I do, but would if those same statements actually caused the person to look at something in a different light and make changes that were beneficial? Hindsight is always 20/20 in these situations, so yes, after the fact you can see that it is not helpful.
Even still, I am not looking at this on a micro level, but rather macro level. We donāt often know what is helpful or not until after the fact. I am not saying this to invalidate this post, but I think if we are all just giving the same cookie cutter platitudes without an alternative viewpoint then this place loses the diversity that it makes so unique.
I have always felt that if we can keep people here. Keep them active and involvedā¦then and only then , once we get to know themā¦can we discern the best approach to that person as an individual. Kindness, respect, ect generally keeps people around.
And what you do might help some people. It will be only my opinion that it doesnāt help many. I have gotten a lot of benefit from some of your shares, especially when they arenāt a reaction to someone elseās post. When they are from the heart and about your experience, thatās golden. I would love to see more of this on the forum in general, from everyone.
Oh that was just in reference to my response to Menno. I am just presenting a different view point. I was not saying that in relation to anything other than post.
And Iām responding in regards to your posts more generally. But I hear you.
I donāt see that happening at all, and thatās also not what weāre asking for here. Weāre asking for some consideration and kindness when responding to a vulnerable person.
What worked for me is feedback that is generally perceived as not supportive by most here, so that is generally how I approach people here. I had enough people call me on my bullshit that eventually I started to listen. Those who were hardest on me I often hold in high regard now because they cared enough to be honest with me. I may not have liked their feedback at the time, but in the end it was exactly what I needed to hear.
I love this thread @SassyRocks thank you 
(edit sorry @Lisa07 this is your thread! Oh man 
Thank you Lisa )
For myself, here as a member, I draw the line like this:
This website / this app (www.TalkingSober.com) is not a sobriety program. This website is a social community. For many members it is a space of learning and/or friendship, and thatās wonderful. But it is not a program.
Attending a formal program of rehab or recovery is not required to recover, as some of this siteās key members can attest. For some, this social space, this community space, this learning and sharing space, is a key part of their personal journey, and that is valid, and that is enough for them. Maybe they fashion their own programs, which is fine too.
This app is not a program, it is a social space. (Programs can be social spaces as well - most are - but not all social spaces are programs.) To me that helps me with my communications. Each thread is a room in this house we all share, and we can go from room to room, or even make our own rooms. Itās social and conversational spaces.
I see it happen pretty much daily. But I agree on protecting vulnerable persons. Iām glad this forum has so many people from all walks of life to offer support in so many different ways
I think we are talking about 2 different things. 1) how to treat people and 2) approach on getting a message across.
I can be kind and compassionte, yet blunt with the truth.
Maybe make a thread about aproach as this seems to be going that way.
Personally, I dont think an argument exists to defend someone who does not treat someone with dignity and respect.
This, in my opinion should be a given here.
I donāt think anyone is arguing that. Opinions can, and are, disagreed with, but that doesnāt indicate a lack of dignity and respect. If they did lack dignity and respect Iām sure the post would be flagged as it would most likely be against forum rules
I think the distinction is important. As some people now begin their sober journey on an app, such as ours, vs an IRL program. What worked for people who got clean / sober āon the outsideā and how that experience was seems to me it would be quite different than the experience of this app. How we interact on an app / online persona / community can be very different than IRL.
I have to ponder that some more. I appreciate you bringing it up Matt.
I think there are fine lines here. What one might feel is disrespectful or crossing some line might not feel like anything at all to others. Iām not saying we have to be walking on eggshells, but some kind consideration is worthwhile.
I must admit I come and go due to negative comments on my previous posts before. I am no law reluctant to share my journey. I mainly read posts and respond now.
It seems pretty ridiculous that a post such as this turns into a debate.
I appreciate this very much. I see in here something that has come up which is the ācalling people on their bsā and tough love, or that is how certain things can be framed.
For many people, someone calling you out on bs is usually best recieved by those you are close to. If its someone just laying it to you, that you dont really know its not tough love because you do not have a relationship. It can be very awkward for the person recieving the tough love, especially when there is not a relationship because there is no level of trust.
Many people in here also have been raised in dysfunctional home and by people who themselves have used tough love and ājust saying it like it isā as a framing for critcism and unhealthy boundaries. When you are used to and conditioned in relationships that are heavy handed and unhealthy, its dysregulating when others engage in this type of approach when you are not super close with them. Thisbis a comnunity; and being called out for anything on a public thread is weird. If you feel deeply that someone needs some ātough loveā or you want to point something out, why not send them a personal message? People who grow up in dysfunction and have trauma find people calling them out like that, well meaning as they thibk they are being, to be shaming them. We all have our approach and for some it works for others it doesnt. The diversity here is amazing, but tough love requires a bond befoee you throw down. Just my 2 cents. Xo.
I am sorry to hear this Linda, amd I believe this is what the poster of this thread is speaking to. Xo. I hope you do fibd space to share, and sometimes we just have to ignore people bit that is hard also. This should be a space where you feel comfortable to share your journey. Xo.