Never not gonna be an idiot fella, me niether 
We can be sober idiots though!
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Just a PSA, if you aren’t a trained mental health clinician you absolutely 100% CANNOT diagnose someone with a mental health condition. Even more so when it’s based on a single paragraph you read on the check in thread. I don’t give one fuck if you read an article on it. Yall throw around the term narcissistic like it’s going out of style, yet are completely unqualified to make that diagnosis.
You all really need to stop. Not only does it not help the person at all, it makes that thread unreadable. Also, FYI it makes you look really bad when you do it and don’t even understand the diagnosis you are trying to give. Leave the mental health treatment to those who are actually experts. You are most likely doing more harm than good.
And if you are a mental health professional then you should know better.
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I am seriously wrapped up in things like this. I am a big protector of people whom others assume they can give recommendations to or diagnoses with limited knowledge. I even searched on the word to make sure I never used it. I did, on my ex, in 2019.
Anyhoo….I am in it personally now, as many people when speaking to my traumatic brain injury, say a lot of things to me that are common with untrained people - and NOT helpful, even painful.
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If you are drowning in the middle of the ocean and someone throws you a life raft don’t complain that it’s not your favorite color.
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I know this is not appropriate but I have to say it: If it’s not pink, I better keep swimming until I see pink fish from below 
On the serious side: That’s one of the main reasons why I stopped offering support to certain people long ago. I don’t any longer waste my time and energy on people who don’t get the extent of their own problems and rather complain & nag than work on solutions (a very common, widespread character defect in my country, even used as a stereotype to describe how “we” are).
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only thing that helped me. i believe if i hadn’t gone to overseas treatment, where rules on patient treatment are more lax, i would never have recovered. the programs in america are too profit oriented and do not have the courage or care to completely break you and force you to build yourself from the ground up.
several major defects and denials had to be addressed;
- self pity narcissism, i am not too broken to succeed, i have X diagnosis so i am doomed to fail → had to turn into i am just like everyone else, a brain in a body.
- everyone who ever left me, abandoned me, has brought me pain, is at fault for the way i turned out → i am responsible for all of the decisions i have made after a certain age (i would say 10-11). god bless myself for this one bc for years i lived pinning the word “abuser” to a parent who was only navigating parenthood for the first time as any other parent does, and has made every decision out of love. only with sobriety i was able to reach that conclusion and my relationship with her is amazing now truly.
- narcissistic suicidality → the world owes me nothing, as a daughter/sister/niece/etc i am obliged to care for my family, the world fucking sucks and life will fucking suck but others have made it through and have created impact, so can i.
- being held down by pain, using it as an excuse to continue self destruction → power. gratitude waking up in the morning with sight, with all of my appendages intact, with no major health concerns (knock
on 
)
tough love is the only thing that will ever work for me. sit me down tell me i’m a piece of shit for the way i caused others to suffer who had done nothing but their best, tell me about how my rebel mentality is digging my grave and rapidly at that. overseas we had defect group every week, where we would call each other out on our sneakiness, lies, behaviors that followed us from addiction that show us that it isn’t about the drugs. we were told no to the most basic of desires, they would purposefully mess up our grocery orders to make us sit in that resentment and pity party, have us throw a tantrum and reflect later on how dumb we’re being. we had mock funeral groups. having no where to go in a foreign country and being denied our passports, being locked up behind an iron gate also helped immensely. literally could not escape. either learned th program or suffered in the rebel mentality for the 6-9 months. being coddled and pitied and pampered has done nothing for me.
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My first sponsor always used to say, “If you baby them, you’ll bury them…” So true.
Being able to have the tact to call someone on their bullshit while maintaining compassion for their blundering through early sobriety is worthy of sainthood imo.
Everyone also has main character syndrome. Myself included. All of my “poor me” attitude was something he called “terminal uniqueness.” All that bs about how “you don’t know the troubles I’ve seen…getting sober is just harder for me than everyone else because blah blah blah….” they truly have to just go through more relapses it until they want it enough or spin off the face of the earth. Sad as it is.
Regardless of where the shit piles in our life come from it’s our responsibility to do the work to make a garden out of it.
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Not everyone. I’m not even the main character in my own life. Most days I’m the supporting actor, at best.
We’re a NPC in 99% of people’s lives, including most of our family’s. I think it takes real humility to accept and be at peace with that.
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I have a buddy who says his drinking is under control and he moderates his drinking. He has been drinking for a year straight. Under control? Yeah right. I’m not gonna offer him tough love anymore because it pisses him off, so I just ignore him. I’ve been trying to help him so many times, but I’m done. If he wants to drink himself to death, it’s his choice and if he refuses to get help, it’s his choice, ffs.
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You can be an example, so he knows who to come to when he’s ready.
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True.
When I started realizing how little other people’s thoughts about me (or lack thereof) mattered it made choosing myself and prioritizing my needs that much easier.
Keeps at it with all the work you’re doing and you’ll find your range as an actor expands to roles you never thought you could play.
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Living by example…
I had a good friend who found recovery several years before me. Even though i wasnt ready. I did notice his life improving and i was happy for him.
Years later when I reached the point i was willing to ask for help. He was the first person I called. He took me to my first meeting that i went to without a nudge from the judge.
It resulted in 9.9 years of continuous sobriety.
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This slapped me with support. 
I have no idea how else to describe this sensation. Thank you!
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This reading, from “24 Hours A Day”, entry for May 3, expresses my sense that to forgive someone is fundamentally a selfish act. When I am wronged or harmed, it is my pride that keeps replaying the hurt, my pride that keeps the hurt alive, my pride that must be addressed to resolve the wrong.
The author is Richmond Walker, the added emphasis is mine.
Meditation for the Day
I must overcome myself before I can truly forgive other people for injuries done to me. The self in me cannot forgive injuries. The very thought of wrongs means that my self is in the foreground. Since the self cannot forgive, I must overcome my selfishness. I must cease trying to forgive those who fretted and wronged me. It is a mistake for me even to think about these injuries. I must aim at overcoming myself in my daily life and then I will find there is nothing in me that remembers injury, because the only thing injured, my selfishness, is gone.Prayer for the Day
I pray that I may hold no resentments. I pray that my mind may be washed clean of all past hates and fears.
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Im struggling to understand this but im interested in knowing more. Can u explain this to me in simple terms lol
For example: I forgave my ex bf (abuser) for what he did to me. Are u saying thats selfish in the sense that i forgave him so thay I could find peace? It does make sense that it is a selfish act, as I am forgiving so that I can gain something from it. I can kind of see that. Hope this makes sense.
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i messaged @moderators and asked to put this discussion somewhere else. this is the tough love thread, not the we discuss moral interpretations of forgiveness.
i really dislike not staying in the topic lane. and spare me those pray my ass off blabla.
derek, please say something, it’s your thread @Englishd
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I disagree with this. A call to forgive someone who has deeply hurt you can be tough love, especially when you’re still reeling. Is the topic of the post that bugs you, or that someone hinted towards a religion?
In the end, it is Derek’s thread. Surely, there will be a moderator ruling shortly 
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I don’t particularly see it as derailing, but I don’t know the particulars of AA.
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Those are the really tough situations, abusive relationships. I do not have direct personal experience so I can’t extend my conviction out that far on that basis. I had a sponsor who had been sexually abused by a priest, and he said that he could not come to a resolution on that until he realized that while he was not responsible for what happened, he was responsible for his reaction to it.
I do have experience with having a resentment toward someone and being unable to resolve it until I was able to develop some empathy for him. He did hurt me in that relationship, but after it was over, I carried that hurt and anger around and just let it fester. When I was able to understand, however grudgingly, that he was just a lonely and frightened individual, that I could then set aside the continuing anger I was feeling.
I don’t think I came to peace with it, but I did stop letting it drive me. And when I saw that I had chosen to continue participating in the relationship, then the idea of forgiveness kind of evaporated. It was replaced with acceptance that we both had a role in what went down.
This seems muddled to me, but I hope it will help at least describe what I mean a little more.
The “tough love” part of this has to do with emphasizing the work we must do to recognize our roles, to accept that we did have some choices either before, during, or after the relationship. Forgiveness is not some immensely heroic act of self-sacrifice. The letting go starts with our own responsibility, and when we’ve reached closure with that, generally the whole episode loses its strength.
@Englishd, I can ask the mods to move this to the lounge if you would like to tidy up this topic.
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