Astronomy, science, rockets, NASA, and all the space topics thread. FREE ALIEN QUIZ INSIDE! DON'T WAIT! ACT NOW!

Nudging a bit back to the original topic on this thread (“Astronomy, science, rockets, NASA, and all the space topics”) :innocent:

There is soooooo much water in the Solar System. It amazes me how much water there is. It’s a bit like travelling across a desert, and there are oases, so you plan your route to go through them, to refill your water supply and get other items you need.

I imagine that our ancestors felt similarly about crossing the Sahara. It must have taken years, decades (maybe centuries?) of trial and error before they had the trade routes set, so caravans could make it through the punishing conditions in the desert.

Image source:

https://www.nasa.gov/jpl/the-solar-system-and-beyond-is-awash-in-water

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Yes, that’s an important point:

There is a distinction between what is empirical (based on observable, measurable, and verifiable objects and events), and what is not empirical. Neither one is better or worse, but they are different, and they serve different purposes (like oil and water: both serve valuable purposes, but they don’t mix with each other).

The story “Lord of the Rings” and the story “Extinction of the Dinosaurs” are both stories that involve epic events of world-shaking significance. They are both narratives, but only one of them is empirical.

All humans live their lives in stories, and all human cultures have myths and fictions and compelling tall tales of one type or another. These aren’t empirical, and they’re not supposed to be. These types of stories are for entertainment and imagination.

What science does is tell stories that are empirical. They’re not about entertainment; they’re about discovery and exploration. And it’s not something that ever stops. It’s an infinite story of learning and development, as we travel through history, from one age to the next.

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Do you wanna live with Sauron as your lord? I don’t think so.

Thank goodness for Frodo and Gandalf and the team. They saved us :innocent:

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I posted this in “Memes” last night. Looks like it’s more appropriate here.

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Cooooool :star_struck:

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I have not read all the thread. I have had the good fortune of looking through large telescopes quite a bit. Plus just being able to look in to a dark sky at night. I can look at a tiny speck and know that that is billions of stars… and there are more and more and more and more… it is more than my mind can comprehend. Would I for a single second think that “we” are the only “life” out there? Heavens, no.
There did seem to be quite a bit of activity and stories in times past. Alien abductions etcetera. I believe that stuff. The stories were all too similar. Might be whoever “they” were, they got tired of researching us and our mortality and destructive ways.
I saw an UFO one time. It was not a spaceship looking green alien thing. It was a HUGE BALL of round glow or fire that very slowly dropped to the horizon and there was never an explanation. Four of us saw it and we looked for it… about 8 miles away.
I have a friend who saw a “spaceship” go over the top of a grocery store a longtime ago. Other people saw it too.
I had a friend who was a General in the army and he had lots of stories …

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Twice I have had beloved “dead” people appear and talk to me. Vivid color and one standing right by me, in my backyard, talking to me, I could reach out and touch. Maybe for 5 or 6 seconds each occurrence. They each said the same thing, twenty five years apart. I am not prone to suggestion, histrionics or an over active imagination. These events happened. They were real ’ whatever they were’. One was my mother a year after her death, another was a good friend, some time after his death.

When alien stories/occurrences were happening a lot, I thought, ok if they appear to me I will not be scared. Most of the stories they just checked people out, they did not hurt them.

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It’s anyone planning to watch Aretmis?

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Probably not live but I will be following it with intense interest. I love this mission :star_struck: :innocent:

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… and you can keep cutting something in half to make things infinitely small

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The DAWN mission found organics in the asteroid belt - and explored for water on dwarf planets there - and it has a connection to TIE fighters! :face_with_monocle:

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I reeeeeally like this :call_me_hand:t3:

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This is epic. Thank you I for sharing. What did they say to you if it’s ok to ask.

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Outstanding, I love it all but the discredit part especially.

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@mx_elle, @Chiron

A pet peeve of mine is the misuse of “theory”. Theory is an explanatory framework, not an hypothesis or a possibility.

So the big bang theory is not just “Oh, we think this happened, and look at all the evidence to support it!”, it explains how the universe is expanding, how there is a finite set of elements, what the implications of the conservation of matter and energy are in an expanding universe, etc.

The flat earth is an hypothesis. And an hypothesis can be demonstrated to be true or to be false or to be the wrong question. It is not a theory - it does not provide any explanation for how the objects around us in space and time interact with our presence in space and time.

All things, if attributed to the correct theory, are “theoretically” true - that is the theory predicts the events accurately. A conspiracy theory never (and I mean never) accurately predicts events - it confounds causation and correlation and ignores a fundamental truth of the universe and all we know about it - the principle of Occam’s razor or the law of parsimony.

So theories explain things, hypothesis are to be proved true, false or unprovable by expositions of facts, and confirmation bias exists and operates on all people.

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Thank you for sharing this post Dan. I deeply appreciate this - thanks :pray:t2: :innocent:

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I’d planned on making this post when the autumnal equinox happened a few days ago, but being sick got in the way, so I’m posting it now.

The bi-yearly equinox happened on the 22nd / 23rd, so the beginning of spring in the southern hemisphere and autumn in the northern hemisphere. I highly doubt there is anyone in this thread who doesn’t know how all this works as far as seasons and the like, but who doesn’t like a good info-graphic picture or two?

change-Earth-seasons-sunlight-amount-surface-latitudes

Here is another thing I thought was interesting which happened at the same time. In astrology, when the autumnal equinox is ‘exact’, and the precise moment the season changes, the sun is at 0 degrees and 0 seconds of Libra. There are astronomical ways of noting these coordinates as well, in case someone is interested and wants to look them up for their own information. Anyway, as the sun moved to this position, Mercury was at 0” and 29’ of Libra. It is currently ‘retrograde’ (which is actually simply an optical illusion from our perspective on Earth), and only 5 hours and 43 minutes later the two of them were exactly conjunct (together in one spot). “Exact” in terms of astrology, and as exact as they were going to be even though Mercury was 2.9 degrees SSW of the sun from the earth’s perspective.

Most people have heard the term “Mercury retrograde”, even if they don’t know much about it. Astronomically, as I said before, it is an optical illusion like one car driving past another, and for a moment the slower car looks like it’s not moving and then going backward from the viewpoint of the passing car. All planets have a period of “retrograde” from the viewpoint of the earth. The planets beyond Earth (superior planets) are always “retrograde” when they are in opposition to the sun.

Mercury and Venus are a little bit different because their orbits are between the earth and the sun. These two planets have “inferior” and “superior” conjunctions. The inferior conjunction is when the planet is between the earth and the sun, and the superior conjunction is when the sun is between the earth and the other planet.

Astrologically, there is much to be said about the difference, but I’m not going to go too far into that because when we start going into the meanings of these things we begin to deviate from the concrete/visible astronomy and wander more into the ‘spiritual/energetic’ realms. However, I do think that it’s interesting that the two happened together in such a short period of time. Going into a new season with the sun’s equinox and the inferior conjunction of Mercury with the sun begins a new cycle (think of the new and full moon as an example for simplicity—the inferior conjunction of Mercury being the ‘new moon’, the superior conjunction being the ‘full moon’, and then the cycle completing and another beginning when Mercury comes back to the inferior conjunction).

When viewed on an astronomical level, these conjunctions are the point where both Mercury and Venus change from an “evening star” to a “morning star”. I also think it’s kind of interesting how the planet of information and communication (Mercury) can’t be observed when it is conjunct with the Sun (which represents one’s ego), but only when it’s further away because often we get become ‘blind’ to something when we are too close to the issue, and it’s with separation and distance that we are able to see things clearly. Like how after being sober for a period of time, we can look back and realize certain things that we just couldn’t see while we were in the middle of the chaos of addiction.

But anyway, I thought it was interesting and wanted to point it out. Of course, we just had a new moon just a few hours ago, and Jupiter will be at an exact opposition from the sun tomorrow, which makes right now an excellent time to set up a telescope and take a look!

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I’ve clearly missed a lot of discussion over the past few days while I was sick, and I’m going to just write one reply in an effort to catch all the comments that were directed my way instead of breaking them up per person. I’m still not feeling great, so if I miss anything from anyone, it isn’t intentional.

One thing I really appreciate about this forum is the variety of views and knowledge levels each brings with them. I would definitely enjoy having in person discussions with quite a few as written communication has its limitations.

I am going to put everything under a tab out of consideration since I already posted something long. Please touch/click on the arrow to expand post

@Twizzlers I agree with what you’re saying here. Even to have a discussion that gets heated, but in the end all parties are able to walk away from the topic and be able to maintain good relations. The world is quickly becoming a place where we can’t do that. I have wondered a lot about this, and I think it might have to do with (but not limited to) some of these: 1. identifying too much with the subject; 2. not being able/willing to have a discussion about something without trying to convince the other; 3. a rise in some people seeing anyone who doesn’t completely think like them as ‘bad’ in some way.

This is not easy for someone who is interested in exploring ideas of all kinds. I always learn a lot when I discuss something with another person with different opinions as I often walk away from the discussion considering what was said, and seeing how my own opinions/information holds up against it. I think that by speaking with someone you completely disagree with, you can be made aware of areas you need to question your own opinions that you might not have thought about.

I think that might be part of why I like science so much. The idea that we should always question, that we should constantly be asking “why”, the idea of trying to prove your own theory wrong in order to make sure you aren’t just trying to confirm what you already believed, etc., etc. Which leads me into two points I want to highlight specifically before I continue.

@mx_elle You are correct. I appreciate you making this point. It is an important nuance, I’m I’m glad you brought it up.

@SinceIAwoke Fair enough, and I also appreciate your comment on this. I’m clearly not as informed on the specific meanings and differences, and now that you’ve brought that to my attention, I plan to look into it. Language is such an important thing. I’m a firm believer that in order to properly communicate, words have to mean something, and that definition can’t constantly be shifting or else how can we properly communicate a meaning to someone else and be understood?

On that note, I want to go back to @Matt’s reply four days ago (which is basically forever in Internet time :laughing: ) concerning science and religion. I agree with what you put forward, but also it doesn’t exactly capture what I mean when I talk about science becoming like a religion. I would agree that they both have different functions as institutions (and I may not be using the right word here, but I hope the meaning is understood) and what they represent to a person.

The structure of religions is what I am referring to, not the spirituality concept (as I think that actually isn’t what a religion is, but rather those ideas are ‘encapsulated’ within a specific religious framework in order to have each specific religious institution. When I look at “science” or “politics” or something else and refer to it in terms of becoming a religion, I mean that it is building up the structural frame work and people are looking to it as they would a ‘religion’, and simply believing what they are being told as if it is the final arbiter of truth, and anyone who may have different views, ideas, or who simply question are “otherized”. The “believers” feel they have the right to scorn, belittle, hate, or on the most extreme level, to physically harm, the “unbelievers”.

I think this happens with what we literally see as religion, but also with science, politics, ‘spiritual’ new age-y stuff, ‘conspiracy’ groups, etc. I suppose we would call it "cult"ish behavior, and I’ve really thought about at what point does something move from ‘cult’ to ‘religion’ status, though please forgive me for not adding all my musings here.

Honestly, this whole conversation would probably be extremely interesting to discuss in real time. I always appreciate what you have to say and your replies that thoughtful and precise, and this is a wide topic with several levels.

I also appreciate both of your, @mx_elle and @SinceIAwoke, comments and I know there is more to what you mentioned in your thoughtful replies that I haven’t really touched on, even though I would like to because the conversation would be interesting, but my fever over-heated brain is starting to ooze out of my ears and I have to gather it all up before my hungry cat decides I haven’t fed her fast enough and she begins to feast. :laughing: :sweat_smile: I can return to them at a later time if you want to continue the conversation.

Lastly, @TMAC, everything related to the topic is welcome! Do not deprive us of your humorous alien posts!!

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