For those who may be interested - a lot of what we’re talking about here is part of the Drama-vs-Empowerment concept, which is neatly illustrated in the Drama Triangle (Stephen Karpman) and the Empowerment Dynamic (David Emerald). There’s a good visual overview here; I’ve found it helpful in understanding how to foster empowerment and healthy respect and recognition:
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It’s just that: drama is compelling. It’s riveting. Is it empowering though? Does drama actually do the layered, communicative, explorative work on all sides that’s required to actually dismantle toxic patterns, toxic shame, and dehumanization?
No it doesn’t.
Ultimately these types of situations force us to ask challenging questions of ourselves. Why am I engaging in this way? Truly. Why this way, at this time, in this place, and why not in another less spectacle-drama way?
If we respect ourselves enough to recognize the pain that’s behind our desire for drama - if we respect ourselves enough to see how we’re using drama as a shield to protect us against our own sense of vulnerability, and how we have to get past that shield to really grow - then we are in a position to start working on empowerment.
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I’ve also struggled with being a peacemaker. For me it shows up as “I might as well take care of X myself because struggling to get others to do it is exhausting”. Of course that’s codependent thinking & classic addict behaviour but there it is 
Gradually - and I’m still learning - I’ve started to understand that the (healthy) struggle is itself the thing you need. There’s no perfect final result that would be “right”; what matters is the effort to connect and communicate among each other, with each other, as imperfect incomplete humans in an imperfect incomplete world.
So it doesn’t matter if X is done or not. What matters is engaging with people constructively in ways that work for my community, and that is how we move forward. In the end we may find that X isn’t the result we get at all; the open-minded, sympathetic and receptive communication and collaboration process may actually produce a constructive result that none of us could have anticipated!
All to say: I love imperfection. I love problems. Because they are the start of growth.
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It says that you’re imperfect. It says that you eyes are open and you see - with deep and admirable human sympathy - that they, like you, are imperfect.
It says that you, Piglet86, are observant, perceptive; that you see similarities and build bridges, and that you have a gift for seeing the threads that connect people: the commonalities. This perceptiveness is a unique strength and it is one of the things that makes you valuable in the world, in your communities (including here) and to the people you love.
Getting irritated is fine - it’s good actually. Burying that irritation is a problem. But getting irritated and communicating about that in a constructive way - “I’m feeling ____ because ____ happened” - is a deeply humanizing and empowering thing. It is something you ask to have seen and acknowledged. Feeling irritated is part of being human. It will never not be part of being human; it will never not be part of life. Instead, irritation is a signal, that you experienced something that struck you as problematic - and that is an opportunity to communicate and work together on a solution (which is a human activity that brings us together: working through things together builds trust and understanding and connection).
Probably because, like me, you still are attached in some ways (especially when your emotions are touched in a raw spot) to an idea of how the world “should” be. Remember the other day when we were talking about how we can always be either here, or not here? Whenever we’re in a mindset of thinking how things “should” be, we’re not here. Now, not being here isn’t automatically a bad thing - like, I need to actually put in some effort to make breakfast; it isn’t going to make itself while I wait - but when I get clingy and attached about how I wish things would be different, that’s when I start creating negative fog, I start floating in negative thought and feeling patterns, I start spinning my wheels, and I get stuck. The problem there is I’m escaping to a fantasy - a so-called “perfect” world where everyone sees ___ - which is impossible. This fantasy, like the drugs / alcohol / addiction I used to do, isn’t helping. It’s a prison; it’s a lie. (It’s also unhelpful, because in a world like that, a “perfect” world, there would be no growth at all. No problems to overcome together, no irritations or imbalances, no mutual misunderstandings to listen through, to take time to listen to each other open-mindedly = no growth.)
Why does it bother you? Not because of the other people. It bothers you because you know what you’re doing to yourself, by escaping to this fantasy world. You know you’re not where you should be, emotionally and mentally. You’re scared (which is ok; it’s healthy).
Actually it’s a good thing that it bothers you. It is a signal and you can learn to recognize it, and use that signal to help you change direction, to somewhere that works better for you and for the other people involved.
That’s the thing: you don’t. None of us do. Doesn’t matter if you have 1 hour, 1 week, or 1,000 days. There is no “secret”. It is always a unique journey. Yes it requires help and yes you need to work through things, make progress, follow a growth program, but it’s not a formula.
The thing that hurts is that you look at others and you see yourself. You see the uncertainties and incompleteness and hesitation and exposure and embarrassment and you want to cradle her, you want to shelter her, you want to comfort her.
She is you.
Ultimately I think it all comes back to that. We can never read another person’s mind (we can do so many things in this world but that is one of the things no human being can do; we sometimes imagine we can but it is at best incomplete, and at worst a total illusion) - we can never read another person’s mind, so we have to be gentle, we have to inquire, we have to explore, and we have to care for ourselves so that we can return to continue the next day. Ultimately, that’s what we do: we are ourselves in this world, and that’s our project; we are working on ourselves as individuals in a community of people with infinitely different personalities, perspectives, and experiences.
You’re a good person and you belong. You matter, and you will always matter, and you are enough.
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This has been quite the derailment.
Good work, friends
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Yep, and the actual comment/joke was directed at one person who wasn’t offended. But hey, we need the social media Police to keep everyone in check.
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Time to let it go. Her sobriety and her participation here is her responsibility. People relapse. People leave when miffed. People get mean and don’t understand each other. I see it as a social experiment to be part of this community because often real life is much harder and more triggering. If she comes back she will be welcomed with open arms. That’s the beauty of this place. Disagreements happen. It’s life!
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I missed it all… dammit.
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Serenity now…serenity now
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Ah so this is about me then. You don’t have to like me and I apologized for previous comments.
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We’re ALL trying to stay sober. That was the point of kindly encouraging her to use different language that was offensive. Nothing to do with a joke, It was about asking her to be mindful of her language to other addicts/people, and she subsequently went on the defensive/attack. .
I don’t think there is any changing your mind about the situation as you seem quite invested solely in that one person vs the greater picture
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I think it’s time for everyone to take a step back. Public arguments only hurt everyone. Remember this thread is open to newcomers too. Love you guys. 
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I agree with you. Most definitely. Thank you for saying so.
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I wish that worked but it frequently doesn’t. But I agree it is worth trying.
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I second that 
There’s a lot of strong feelings here and that’s understandable. It’s worth taking a breath. Let’s take a day or two and take some time to reflect and refocus
This is a helpful track, I find, at these times:
https://insighttimer.com/MelliOBrien/guided-meditations/untangle-from-charged-thoughts
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Let’s all take a step back for a bit.
Yeah you eat a bunch of them and all you wanna do is lay around on the couch all day. Too tired to fight. Hence world peace, Brilliant.
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This is the thread that moderators move derailment conversations to. Derailment is against the rules.
Thread Derailments occur when a thread is steered away from the topic discussed in the original post to a different topic completely.
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