“once an addict always an addict”

Advice & Questions
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I’m by no means an expert but my understanding is the difference is that you are not powerless over your addiction but rather can tackle it like any other compulsive negative behaviour i.e like anger management or social issues.

A more personal based approach on what works for you. It’s a scientific approach looking at behavioural change via CBT and community/team activities.

I’ve never personally seen anyone use it for changing behaviour to be able to drink more moderate but rather abstain and remove it completely which is possible because you don’t need alcohol to live unlike other behaviour issues such as relationships to food.

I suppose the drink aware type stuff is using CBT tools to adjust behaviour from drinking to excess to drinking in normal moderation but I’ve not seen this within SMART.

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22

I think reality is far more nuanced than that statement allows, and how a person’s brain has been affected by addiction, a person’s genetics, and a million other things determine what will work for them. For some people abstinence is the only way. I’m one of those. I know when I attempt to moderate I go straight back into the pit and have to start over. It plugs into my mental health in really bad ways. But I know the way it affects me is not the way it affects absolutely everyone else. I think so much of recovery is about having an open mind and learning to support others even when methods and ideas disagree. If folks are trying to be sober and better their lives, I’ve got no argument with them.

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I agree with everything you just said not sure what my post pointed out as different to that

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Oh, sorry. Meant to reply to the thread, not just you!

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I have little to no doubt that if I picked up then it would gradually lead back to drinking heavily. So yes, I’m an addict, I know that.

However I also hold the belief that a majority of people (in the UK at least, not sure about elsewhere) are also addicts, but they live in denial or with complete lack of awareness because drink is so ingrained into our culture as this amazing social thing that you have to have.

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Once an addict, always an addict. - Definitely has some negative connotations there.

When I think "Addict", I think of someone in active addiction. That makes me think of adjectives like, untrustworthy, erratic, unpredictable, dangerous, etc.

The phrase “always an addict” makes me think that the aforementioned adjectives will always be true, even when addiction is dormant. I feel like it would be used as an excuse when you let someone down, or to pass blame one to someone, even when undeserved.

But also, I AM an addict. I always will be. It’s a true statement for me. It’s something that I have meditated on and I am at peace with it.

I suppose It would be like saying, “Once a diabetic, always a diabetic”. The only difference is, the stigma attached to being an addict.

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That certainly is a case that seems to be an alcoholic that ‘got better’. I wonder what his feelings were as he was drinking. Or if he got negative consequences from his drinking. My stepdad is a happy heavy drinker. He drinks a lot, but slowly, gets a little tipsy but never aggressive or sloppy. Volumewise it could be an alcoholic intake. But the feelings behind the drinking are different.
The stories of lots of people here are the opposite of your father’s. For me if I am given the hint of a chance that I am not an addict, I will drink again. But history suggested to me that moderation is impossible for me.
How often did u try moderation before realising it wasn’t working? (if that is ur situation)
Also, every time I did “moderate” it was torture. Wanting more and the frustration I couldn’t. Thinking I am an addict is easier.

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This x10000

We took the disease of addiction and made a society and economy out of it.

Cigarettes and nicotine billion dollar industry,

Porn billion dollar industry

Alcohol billion dollar industry,

Prescription meds billion dollar industry

All incredibly addictive and dangerous.

So we took that business model, and morphed it to suit our own product.

Video games, that are addicting, cellphones which people can’t fathom their life without, apps like tik tok, you tube, twitch.

I was always aligned with addiction and addictive personality, and it’s exploited, when I was a kid, it was baseball cards, I wanted to finish sets, and score the high value cards, opening every pack was another shot. What do card companies do? Protect their investment, make you look for that diamond jn the rough and chase it by buying more product and lining their pockets,

As I got older I got into video games, and when the add on packs, pay for play model came out along with achievements, or in game goals, records etc, I would chase them, the industry started adding add ons expansions and similar for sale, the more you play the more you need, hovering thousands of dollars out of your bank account… even cellphone games like candy crush or similar offer buy power ups for a few dollars, a few dollars won’t hurt until your so invested your spending all your money and time on it.

We have took the idea of addiction, and manifested it into our economy and lives while making profit off of it

We also align the stigma, with the word addict, and mental health

We refer to cancer patients who are cleared in remission,
Diabetics who are controlled as Insulin Dependent Diabetes Meletius

So if the word or phrasing or once an addict always an addict bothers you choose your words

I’m an alcoholic, drug user, and hyper sexual, all in remission. I didn’t say I was an addict tho right? But those diagnoses won’t disappear, in fact my medical chart says history of substance abuse disorder,

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Hi, for me its a given and soothing fact, not saying i am happy to have a disease…
But happy its not diabetes or cancer for that matter.

The only thing i can’t play with is drugs and alc.
Well and also Ben en Jerry’s :joy:

Addiction is a disease which is incurable at this time. And for me it helped me to surrender to my 12 step program as an medicine to treat my disease.

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12 step program or similar programs is a form of treatment, best part it costs no money, just an hour or so of your time.

If I had heart disease I’d see a cardiologist
Cancer an oncologist
Kidney disease an urologist

But the disease I have requires a recoverologist, those I find at AA

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32

Just the view from where I am:

The phrase only applies if we fulfill it. It only defines us if we allow it to.

An addict or alcoholic has yet to break-away from that which holds them. They may not use, but they are still mentally enslaved at some level.

I had many quits, ranging from a few days, to a few months, but booze (my doc) was always present in my mind. I was constantly tempted, not fully committed to “forever”, and looked for that excuse to justify taking that first drink.

During these quits, I didn’t change anything else in my life. I thought sobriety just meant the absence of alcohol.

This time it was different. I had fallen as far as I was willing to fall, hit my “bottom” and bounced a bit. I said “never again” and really meant it.

Funny thing is, the thought of “never again” didn’t feel like a life-sentence in a prison cell. Quite the contrary…it was like the cell door opened, and I stepped through…to freedom. I literally and figuratively started walking and kept walking to get as much distance between myself and alcohol as possible. This time, I did some actual work.

“White knuckling” will only get me so far. It’s like becoming so disgusted with the messy bedroom, that I finally set to cleaning it. So I clean it top to bottom, bulkhead to bulkhead, stand back and think “good”, and then promptly drop my socks in the middle of the floor. Soon enough, the room looks like it’s never been cleaned.

Not this time. I cleaned it, and now I keep it clean. I do the work. I changed my life. I changed my mindset. The phrase “once a drunk, always a drunk” doesn’t apply. Now, this one does:

“I won’t drink, because I don’t drink. I am a non-drinker.”

Free your mind and your ass will follow.

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This describes me so accurately. The last binge was French copper pans, at least they get used🍳

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It’s probably phrased by drinking buddies as they have nothing better in their life? Get and make new friends.

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What do you use to work on your recovery sassy if you don’t mind me asking

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I’d be interested to know your feedback as you get stuck in :slightly_smiling_face:

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For me the effort to try and moderate it means that it’s not worth it and there is always the chance I blow my head and some shit happens.

CBT tool to do a cost benefit analysis helps me with this.

PLUS SIDE… there is having a couple of beers whilst BBQing, having a cocktail with a meal, enjoying a drink in the hot tub with my wife, trying a craft ale, etc etc.

(All these incidents are nice and I can do these without drinking every drink in the house (never had that compulsion))
VS

NEGATIVE… My family are on edge knowing I’m drinking, my health can be impacted if I blow out but also just by the notion that I’m drinking and might blow up, if I blow up I could take drugs as well, I could be drawn into a fight or other incident that leads to consequences, this could lose me my career, relationship and liberty. The physical damage to my body can be crippling if I drink to much.

The equation means that the benefits are not worth the cost

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Proof that it’s all about mindset. You’ve had the fight where it really matters, and win on your terms. Keep getting after it!

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I’d rather say I have, or suffer from, addictions (that are in remission) than call myself an addict. Just like, if it were so, I’d rather say I suffer from diabetes, or typhoid, or cancer, instead of saying that I’m a dibaetic, a “typhoidist” or a “cancerist” (the Dutch love to curse with diseases, typhuslijder and kankerlijder are actual words in Dutch mainly used as swearwords).
It’s more than just semantics. In psychiatry, my working field, we don’t say somebody is a schizophrenic or a depressive. They suffer from schizophrenia or depression.
So it’s doesn’t define me or them. Like @Faugxh says. I do think it’s a chronic disease, but as with all diseases of the mind there are exceptions and special cases, like @Schmemm’s dad is one. But he is an exception to the rule imo.
And we all fight it in our own way but with a lot of similarities among ourselves. And yes, mindset is key. My mind is telling me I never want to drink again. It’s just not worth it.

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That’s the word: “suffer”.

I no longer suffer from alcoholism. I don’t drink. I don’t suffer. I don’t suffer temptation. When offered a drink, saying “no thanks. I don’t drink” is as effortless as drawing in the breath to actually say it. No battle in the mind required. No contemplating possible outcomes of saying “yes”. Wasn’t always this way, and it took a lot of work to get here, but I am here.

Alcoholism doesn’t have to be a chronic condition, the way I see it. What ever way we try to frame it in our minds (where the real battle resides), as long as it supports our sobriety, it’s good.

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I am also a proponent of person-first language, where we do not define ourselves with the condition or illness, nor do we define others. The words I use to describe myself or identify myself have a strong impact on my psyche. When I attend AA meetings and call myself an alcoholic I do so out of respect for the meeting decorum and rituals, but I do not identify as such to myself or to others in my life. I don’t know if this is because my sense of self is weak or for some other reason, but it is a deliberate choice. I suspect it is in part having to do with working in mental health care and being trained and mentored in the power of language, the benefits of putting people before their conditions, which you seem to share, Menno. I appreciate you sharing this in this discussion.

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