Thanks for the update. That sounds like a lot to manage, especially with things changing day by day. Glad to hear you were able to reach the nurse and get your medication sorted out—hopefully everything arrives smoothly and helps. Take care and hope things stabilize soon!
I am doing fine. I am enjoying a vacation in Italy. I am overwhelmed by the many masterpieces of art and architecture. I am more than grateful for the precious time with my partner. I haven’t been on a vacation with a partner in many years.
I am kind of struggeling with eating, though. I have trouble recognizing my body‘s signals if I am hungry or full. That makes is difficult to eat the right amount of food and not overeat. Or, in fact, undereat as well. I am working on that and find a lot of support in the binge eating thread here on TS.
I saw a post on the book of face in one of the hundreds of sobriety groups on there and I thought I would copy and paste the original question and one of the responses to this thread to gauge your opinions.
Here’s the question.
“If someone new walked into a meeting for the first time what advice would you give them?”
Here’s the response.
‘My advice to a newcomer would be: stand up, walk out, and don’t come back.
The reason is that AA is built on an abstinence-only, all-or-nothing model that doesn’t reflect how we actually understand substance use and behaviour change today. It reduces recovery to counting days, months, and years, and ties a person’s entire progress to never using again. That means someone can make massive improvements in their life, then have one drink and be told they’re back at “day one,” as if none of that progress counts. That’s not clinically meaningful, it’s reductive.
In contemporary alcohol and other drug practice, we work from a bio-psycho-social model and recognise that change is not linear. A one-off use is a lapse, not a relapse. A relapse is a sustained return to previous patterns. Lapses and even relapses are understood as part of the process, not proof of failure. Treating them as total failure wipes out progress and undermines a person’s confidence.
That’s where the real issue sits. When you tell someone they’ve completely failed because of a single lapse, you introduce shame and guilt into the process. Shame is one of the biggest drivers of continued substance use because it reinforces the very cycle people are trying to break. The “back to day one” mindset doesn’t prevent relapse, for many people it actually contributes to it.
There are far more effective, evidence-based approaches available now, including counselling, behavioural therapies, harm minimisation, and medications that can support people safely. These approaches focus on understanding the underlying drivers of use, building skills, and making sustainable changes, rather than forcing people into a rigid, one-size-fits-all model.
Having read all the one line, overused cliches that people are using to respond to this post and you will notice a bunch of brainless sheep, each as clueless as the last, trying to fudge their way through something they know nothing about.’
I’d say whoever wrote this sounds deeply unhappy with themselves and the rationalizations of turning a relapse into the more watered down ‘lapse’ is cute.
Almost admireable in it’s denialism I’d say.
Didn’t really entertain anything besides that after I read it tbh.
A relapse not only has very real consequences for your health, it also changes the way your brain operates for quite some time I’d say.
Both from my own experience, and the behaviour I have seen multiple times with relapsing addicts.
A “lapse” is when I get mad at sth. pointless. Bad judement like this, you know?
A relapse can be russian roulette with an almost fully loaded magazine.
Sure there are alternative ways to stay sober, build your own program, etc.
It just doesn’t seem to me like that was the original intent of the poster here.
This seems to be similar to my way of thinking prior to admitting that I was an alcoholic and I needed to never drink again. Thinking that I could drink again kept me in an endless loop of binging, regret, swearing off alcohol and repeat. Knowing that I can’t ever drink again is something that I have to be vigilant about or I may loose another 20 years to a fog. I think it is a dangerous way for an addict to think.
This might be a bit abrupt as a greeting , though I completely understand your point of view. I’d start by asking myself: why would you stay at AA meetings? Just to tell newcomers to go home? Basically, you’d be turning people away just because you disagree. How would that help you?
If I were you, I’d ask myself this: is it necessary to give advice to people who haven’t given you what you’re looking for?
It’s funny, I just wrote something about this in my open diary today. I’ll link it for you. If you’re interested, feel free to check it out!
In my very early days without drinks when all those itches were still constantly firing to pick up a drink because that is what I’d been doing in times of stress, anger, happiness, depression for so many years, fighting those urges is what made me strong. Coming here to talk to other addicts reminded me that one beer was not a setback or a lapse but a desire to let my alcoholic behaviors back into my life.
I set my intention to quit drinking and lapsed twice that week both times because I was bargaining with myself against total abstinence. One night I bought a bottle of wine to gift to someone to see if I could keep it unopened in my house. Nope.
One night I tried to drink one beer out of the fridge and stop there. Nope.
If you keep asking the questions and listening with an open mind you’ll find your answers. There isn’t one approach to alcoholism that works for everyone but if you are wanting to look at alcoholic behaviors critically that starts with abstinence, regardless of which program you subscribe to.
I had a mini epiphany when I came onto this site and after reading for many months was able to say that I’m an alcoholic. I’m not weak or dis regulated or drinking the wrong beverage at the wrong times. I’m an alcoholic so my off switch is not toggled the same as others. Once I start with one drink I don’t stop until I’ve tried to drown something in me. It’s not about finding the right answer, it’s about finding the answer that clicks and helps you.
I see what they’re saying here, and some of it may not be completely without merit, but the combative tone and “one-size-fits-all", black and white nature of the post makes it seem like the person is more interested in click-baity, mic-droppy, attention-seeking engagement than actually giving good advice or really understanding anything.
"Everyone who disagrees with my strongly held and simplistic opinions are sheeple” is usually a red flag for idiocy. I often think of this as "John Wayne-ism”. I enjoy plenty of his movies, but they often consist of JW bluntly telling people off in a matter-of-fact and bull-headed way, scene after scene and situation after situation. Rarely much growth on his part in most of the movies I have seen. I think it’s a shame that many people view stubbornness or contrarianism as strength. Different topic than you asked for, but that’s where my mind sometimes goes with stuff like this.
I feel the whole premise of the answer is wrong. I actually do think as addicts we do need to take this all or nothing approach, while recognizing relapses DO happen to most of us, in the process of finding our forever quit. They happen as part of addiction and not as part of recovery BTW.
On average, an addict needs seven attempts to successfully quit. Research says. As long as we learn something from our relapses they have not been for nought at all I guess. Personally I have no idea how many relapses I had, as the only one where I had the right mindset - going ALL in, ALL or nothing- was my final one. Which I hope I’ll keep going for the rest of my life.
For me the real issue is that peer support, as twelve step meetings are an example of, is only part of the solution. An important part IMHO, but still only a part. We all need to find what works for us. Basically it comes down to building ourselves a new life, a life we don’t feel the need to run from. For me that involved peer support, that I mostly find right here, extensive and intensive psychotherapy, losing most of my old friends, change my work to addiction care, finding new hobbies and re-finding old ones. Finding connection with others, with myself, with the world.
For me the real problem with twelve step programs is the omnipresence of an omnipresent entity in their teachings. I can’t do that. I’m indeed an atheist. When people say that there is no proof either way of the existence or non-existence of a god, that’s bull. Let the theists proof there is one. So far what they’ve come up with is utterly non-convincing. There’s nothing I have to proof myself, as I believe there’s nothing. Nothing except basic human values and basic human rights, and rights, respect and care for all living things, as well as for mother earth. I don’t need a god to teach me that.
Gotten a bit of track too, but the written post doesn’t make much sense to me. The writer doesn’t seem to know much about the program I feel. And indeed has written a piece that seems mostly click- and rage bait.
Yep same. I kinda just see desperate folk living on belief and doctrines that push (and lube) them thru the tube of life. When they get sick in the tube or bleed from rough snags there’s belief and doctrines to explain away resistance and fear.
It’s intrinsically harmless, until it is devastating…
I’m coming from a family where on my father’s side they were members of the Red Church (meaning communists), who were excommunicated from the movement in 1958. If the Communists would have been in power in those days in my country I would not have been born as my grandparents and dad would have been executed as class traitors.
And on my mother’s side there’s a family of rather stern Mennonites. My mum and her siblings all lost their faith, and their mother was told by her parish priest that she would burn in hell because of that. So I had some good examples of what dogmatism means and does.
Then there’s the way I grew up myself, learning to fend for myself, learning not to trust anybody, seeking my own road though life. making me naturally weary of organized religion and every other organized way of looking at life and society. Except basic human values and rights.
I do understand the need for community, for belonging, for being together and sharing the same views and believes. But I don’t really understand why that has to go further than said conviction that we all share our humanity. Beyond that it’s all about power, about abuse, about subjugation, about dehumanization, about the worldview it’s all about winning and losing instead of doing it together.
Not sure where I’m going with this post. Maybe that I understand that people want to belong. But that it is sad, beyond sad actually, that people let themselves be abused by the exploitation of that want. All we need is love. Actually. But as long as we’re caught in the current system of late stage capitalism love will not prevail. It will be a fight between the haves and the have nots. Till death.
I’m here before I’m somewhere else that wouldn’t be good for me. My dad passed away late last night. If I’m being completely honest I don’t know how I feel. I know how I felt when I lost my mom and I don’t feel that way. I feel almost indifferent. Maybe it helps that I knew it was coming. Maybe it’s because the reality hasn’t truly hit home yet. Maybe it’s because i lost mom first and that made realize that everyone passes away eventually. I’m not sure.
I took off from work and just plan to watch tv with the dogs. I might do some online shopping on the legging website.
Very sorry for your loss Jennifer. Take your time to process it. It is a huge occurrence in your life, the biggest life event there is. Be kind to yourself. And share about what you are feeling. Like you are already. Big big hugs friend
I am so sorry you lost your Dad, Jen. All feelings are valid. Even feeling indifferent. Cuddling with your furry friends sounds like the perfect thing to do. Be very gentle with yourself and give yourself what you need.
I’m so sorry for you loss Jen. My heart goes out to you. There is no wrong emotion in grief. Just sit with whatever pops up and let yourself feel it. Puppy hugs help too I think.
, though I completely understand your point of view. I’d start by asking myself: why would you stay at AA meetings? Just to tell newcomers to go home? Basically, you’d be turning people away just because you disagree. How would that help you?
and I value the opinions of the users of this thread. 
