AA is not about giving advice. It’s about sharing my experience strength and hope so that others may benefit. I do not know what gets anyone sober. I know what got me sober, and that’s getting a sponsor and working the steps.
If I’m at a meeting with someone coming back I simply talk about my relapses, which involves the things I didn’t do, and then the things I’ve done to het sober.
I’ve been to thousands of meetings at this point. And in many different locations and what I’ve found is that most (not all) are pretty much like that.
About once a year or so you show up and complain that AA isn’t doing it the way you want. Sounds like a lot of untreated alcoholism to me. You want to change everything around you to suit your needs.
So where does that leave you? Well you can accept the things you cannot change (AA) and stop going or you can change the things you can (why don’t you act in the way you want to see others act rather than complain).
Also it’s kinda funny that you complain that AA doesn’t do enough to help the newcomer, yet going back and reading your posts on here I notice that you don’t seem to reach out and help anyone. You predominantly only interact on your posts, which are all about complaining about AA.
You completely invalidate any valid point you might have by being the exact thing you are complaining about.
I think I am afraid to. I do not know why, but I always feel like I am walking on eggshells with people in the program. Even newcommers.
I have not seen the kind of meeting where people share about relapses or failures. I think what you describe would be really helpful.
I have pretty much given up on AA. I show up occasionally, but being honest is what keeps me sober, so I cannot ignore the tough stuff in my life even to make other people feel good.
But you make a very good point. I should have been finding ways to connect with newer people.
It was the principles of AA that got me sober. The steps did not. I was financially a mess when I came into the program so the various tasks sponsors gave me to do the steps were not possible for me.
Paying off debts, meeting my obligations was a big part of my recovery and had I done the steps, that would not have been possible.
The irony is that after this was over, I finally found a sponsor who’s step actions did not have a financial impact. (He just wanted me to do a workbook and talk.) But by that point, I had a few years under my belt so I am not sure there is much reason to go on.
Someone in another forum asked me a series of questions and when I answered all of them yes, it was clear that I had done the steps without doing them.
I always felt that the principles are what mattered. The steps were one way to get them active in your life but not the only way to do so.
I am still figuring it all out. Which seems like a good place to be.
About two weeks ago I went to a meeting that was all about why you cannot help people get sober, so you should not feel bad about walking away.
It may just be part of the addict pathology, and I am sure I do it myself. But it does not help to be around it. So that is where we are.
At this point in life, I do not really feel I can stay clean and get help if that changes. The urges I get now are pretty small and from what people say that is fairly common. I probably exaggerate them a little because I never had an opportunity to talk about my experience as an addict with anyone other than a shrink.
But that is not very important and I just need to be honest. I am basically okay. I want to fix my relationship with 12-step recovery but that may never happen, so I just have to accept it.
I think we define “welcome” differently. To me welcoming someone means taking a personal interest. AA welcomes me like a desk clerk in a hotel, which does not really help me. It is too impersonal for me.
For me, it was building a support network of people who knew me personally and cared about me. That was something AA did not do for me because of the restrictions on what we are allowed to say to each other.
Even here, you seem kind and mean well, but it is impersonal. I am not sure if you actually read this thread because what you say does not seem to directly relate to the experience described here. That is how the program does things–it does not get too personal. I think I need personal.
I think we all need personal. Talking for myself here: my old friends are either still using or aren’t addicted. Neither one of those I can go to for support when I crave. The non-addicts don’t get what’s happening with me, don’t understand addiction and recovery. The ones still using don’t want to talk about sobriety to me, or support my sobriety, out of spite, jealousy, shame, guilt, you name it.
So we need new friends after quitting. Friends who know the deal. I know I did and do anyhow. And we have to find those friends somewhere. To make new friends takes time, and quite a lot of it in my life and experience.
I tried programs (AA,NA) but not very long. It wasn’t for me. But apart from the programs itself for me it does seem like good places to meet new friends. Me, instead, I found friends here, in this impersonal place. It took a lot of time to make a couple of real friends here. But I did. I invested. Gave something from myself and got something in return.
I do think it takes a lot of effort from ourselves to make these new friends and to have true meaningful relationships with other folks. Whatever the content of the program. I don’t believe in a deity, I have christian friends. I’m gay, I have straight friends. Who cares. But it is a good idea for me to have some atheist friends too, some gay friends, and some addict friends.
So I largely agree with you that we need friends to relate to and to get support from. What I miss from your story is how you go about making those new friends? Sober friends that I think we need as sober folk. It takes effort. Lots of it. For me.
BTW, and in the meantime, I do think it’s good to share our experiences with strangers too. Support each other, even as strangers to one another. Especially us addicts. We are all people and we all share the same humanity. We should try to do stuff together. And who knows what will come from you reaching out to someone or someone reaching out to you. It might be the beginning of a friendship. Got to start somewhere.
Met guys like you in my years in AA who dont really understand the program of recovery , and i agree Maybe its time you left the program ,Dont close the door when you leave someone who deserves it will be coming in .
I never had friends who were addicts or alcoholics, I never went needed to cut anyone off.
My early sponsors impressed on me that you did not go to NA or AA to make friends. I still have trouble talking to people in the program because the whole business of having to call each other out of on stuff inhibits a lot.
I know I am supposed to frame my story as some positive narrative. And while overall my story is positive, I do not want to face someone screaming at me for telling my story the 'wrong" way.
That is just not me. And I am fine with that.
If I meet other addicts, that is great. But if I do not, then I will go on without addict friends.
I teach and am open about my addiction, so I do get some students and collogues reaching out to me. I try to do my best for them and I think I do help.
I have from time to time, but generally, I think it is best to answer questions in online forums. Without meeting people I do not know how much it is possible to be useful.
I do not want to give the kind of superficial support that drives people out of the program. Maybe I am too cautious though. Maybe it is my own lack of courage.
I do help addicts and a number of other people in need.
In my work, people do come to me for help because I am open about my history. At the moment I have two people who call me when they are thinking of drinking/using. I am also connecting them to other support.
This is exactly what most people in AA would say is the wrong thing to do. So I probably never could help people in AA because my priority is to help them stop drinking. Period.
I do not think it is possible to help people in an online forum. I think the best we can do his is answer questions. But to actually help someone stop requires personal contact.
By the way, service is one of the principles I got from AA. I think helping other is key to recovery—or to living in general.
One of the issues I have with the program is that it restricts our ability to help. That was what started this whole thread. We see so much energy spend on making sure we do help those who do not “deserve” it.
I think if someone asks for help, it is important that I help. I do not ask that they pray. I do not tell them they are putting my sobriety at risk. I just help.
Going back to the beginning, do people actually help others in AA? Sharing in meetings is help, but I mean being available when people are afraid they might drink.
I think whenever anyone says they might drink, telling them to pray is not enough. We have to talk to them.
Literally constantly. I got a phone list at one of my first meetings and I used it all the time. They’d give me rides. Get coffee with me. Talk me through anything. I’ve taken calls in the middle of the night from people, I’ve left work to take people to meetings.
Hey there, I’m not particularly a fan of AA either. It’s not a part of my recovery. Sounds like it’s time for you to move on. There’s no shame in acknowledging that something in your recovery doesn’t work and seeking out something that does. Refuge Recovery and SMART might be two options that better suit you. I think that talking about it anymore though just reads as negative talk about a program that helps a lot of people. I hope one of these new avenues is more helpful to you.