Spiritual experience appendix II

Hell it is for me then! :heart:

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That’s unfortunate, for sure.

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If you were to read more about the history of AA and its roots, you’d understand more of where I’m coming from… Just because people feel more comfortable with a god that’s made up, doesn’t change the fact that the history of AA was predominantly Christian.

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You haven’t answered my question about who Christ is in the Trinity. I was interested, sincerely. Who is the Christ we’re talking about and what is his relationship to God / the higher power?

…you had better use everyday language to describe spiritual principles. There is no use arousing any prejudice he may have against certain theological terms and conceptions about which he may already be confused. Don’t raise such issues, no matter what your own convictions are.

…We represent no particular faith or denomination. We are dealing only with general principles common to most denominations.

–Alcoholics Anonymous, pp. 93-94 Working with Others

That said, I do appreciate the value of your spiritual experience, @Joel. Long may it keep you sober! :pray:

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That meme took me second lol :joy:

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The Bible says that God is three persons in one. God the Father, who is the Creator of all of this universe. God the Son, who was manifested in the flesh. He is equally powerful, but for sake of roles submits to the Father. He is the advocate for guilty sinners like us. He is how we have access to God, because without Christs payment on the cross, our sin separates us from God. Then there is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what wills and works in the true believer. He convicts of sin and helps the Christian to become more like Christ. That’s pretty much it in a nutshell… I can pull up scriptures if requested. A little fun fact, next time you drive by a utility pole, look at the very top. There should be a crossarm with three wires on it. Those three wires represent a high voltage circuit. All three wires are equal voltage. Without all three, there is no way to power our nation. Most of our country runs off of three phase power. Nikola Tesla, one of the inventors of the three-phase motors came from a Christian family and was actually next in line to be an orthodox Christian preacher. I was thinking that there was no way anyone could come up with the concept of three-phase power without understanding the Trinity. The Bible says that every good and perfect gift comes from above from the Father of lights. God gets His glory… Just like He did on page 9 of the big book with Ebby Thatcher.

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Is Christ a perfect reflection of God? God made flesh, in the world?

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That’s correct.

And God is all powerful, not limited - as we are - by the bounds of time and space? That is, Christ can appear to humanity as needed, when the time is right, by his grace?

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Christ was manifested in the flesh. He was an example for us to follow and an example of what to strive for. He is the character of God. I do understand that God is so vast that our finite minds are restricted in what we can know. All I know is that I don’t need to know everything…

Really??

I read the original post to be more like “this is the only way recovery/religion/AA works for anyone and let me know if you need me to explain what a spiritual experience is”…so for me personally, I didn’t see the original intention of the thread as a place to share different views lol

But then again I’m known to read into everything, take everything personally, and then make it all about me… I’m learning to detach from that thankfully! :joy:

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Yes, I think we can all take that as a given: one thing we all have in common is the things we don’t know are infinitely more than the things we do know (which is humbling).

The basic property of a mirror is to reflect, right? Like, whether the mirror is a hand mirror, a bathroom mirror, a mirror on a dresser; no matter what the shape or size or place, they’re all mirrors, right?

Correct. He can appear in His sovereignty, but He has called believers in His son to the ministry of reconciliation. He calls His people to strive to live like Christ and proclaim the good news, that guilty sinners can be reconciled to God through the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

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Yeah I know, that was what I read as well. I am deliberately reinterpreting words in fresh and constructive ways.

Spiritual, religious - all these very human experiences take different form in different people, and it’s beautiful like a garden.

That’s my nature though. I’m always looking for the way to turn it into something - inclusive :innocent:

Not to say I don’t appreciate some good sarcasm or cynicism. I love a good turn of phrase :smile:

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Ok so if a mirror is still a mirror because it channels the same light (or Spirit) no matter what its shape, size, or place in time and space -

Why is Christ just a physical body from 2000 years ago? Why can’t he also be the Buddha, Abraham, Mohammed, the universal force of Good; or various teachers and sages who have channeled the grace and spirit of God?

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A lot of people think that because they’re of service or that they’re good people that they go to heaven. Ephesians 2:8-9 says that it’s not of works best any man should boast. We are saved merely by the grace of God… Say someone dies and God judges them only by the 10 commandments. If you’ve ever lied, stolen or cheated, God will hold you accountable. You don’t stand before a judge and say, well I’m a pretty good person. You get judged for laws that you’ve broken. Now, say someone stands in front of God on judgement day and someone walks in and says, I’ve paid his fine. God is just, so he has to punish someone. Christ was the one who had walked in and paid that fine so we can go free… It’s only by God’s grace that guilty humble sinners can be made right with Him. Thank God for grace.

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But it is also true that grace can save anyone. God has the final word. And he has a long track record of saving people who have done his work through other not strictly religious or Christian fora.

And anyway we have no evidence one way or the other, except for faith, which is personal, about what has happened to people after death. Why do we have to fight over who goes where when it’s something we don’t understand and can’t pretend to understand?

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It’s not even Easter, bro.