Derailment void / Off topic 2021 to present

1528

No disrespect.

I’m spiritually challenged myself.

I think the energy could be put to better use instead of a sober atheist social media crusade.

I don’t think anyone in AA who truly practices the principles of the program cares what anyones spiritual beliefs are.

I have found enough loopholes around the word God to work for me.

Nobody cares if Jesus or a rock is your higher power. If they do, then they have some work to do on themselves.

I’m not as active in AA as I could be, but it has helped me just by having a room full of people who are trying not to drink on a daily basis. They share their experience strength and hope based on that.

Religion or the word God is rarely discussed.

Atheists aren’t hiding or ashamed that participate in AA.

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1529

The point is we don’t feel comfortable in AA, nothing else.

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1530

There aren’t any members that felt comfortable being there when they got there.

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1531

That’s … not related though, that’s just nerves. That’s a whole other type of anxiety.

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1532

How do you know what everyone feels?

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1533

I just opened an udon noodle pack for lunch and it had mold in it. 😵‍💫😭 Booo

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1534

Oh no! That’s horrible! :grimacing:

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1536

I feel like this thread is turning into something it wasn’t supposed to be…the OP is looking for like minded people to build an atheist based support system and instead it seems as if there are some that are still listing good things about AA which the OP specifically voiced they are not comfortable with… I don’t believe the OP was looking for debates or having their beliefs questioned… I think we can all be respectful and if this post pertains to you that is great! If AA works for you and you’re happy with it there are lots of threads for that :slightly_smiling_face:

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1537

You can flag any posts you feel are off topic. Its anonymous. And the moderator team reviews them :relaxed:

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1538

Doesn’t matter to me what people believe in, as long as they don’t push their beliefs on me.

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1540

I support any program that helps someone maintain sobriety and no one should feel or be excluded due to, or lack of, religious or spiritual beliefs…

That said, I don’t get the controversy….

A.A. PREAMBLE

Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of people who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.

The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self- supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.

To me and in my experience, my beliefs (and everyone else’s) were irrelevant in AA as long as the point was to maintain sobriety. I don’t understand why being an Atheist, Agnostic, etc…, is controversial…?

Not debating the OP and I personally have no issue with Atheism, Agnostic or religion.

All that matters to me is staying sober.

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1541

I grew up in Utah. My family didn’t belong to the dominant religious organization there. I grew up with people constantly trying to convert me.

Many of their beliefs don’t make any sense to me. I feel the same about all organized religions.

When the courts sent me to AA as a punishment for drug and alcohol related trouble. The first thing I saw when I read the 12 steps poster on the wall was the word GOD. I didnt hear anything beyond that. I shut myself off and I didn’t get anything out of it. I wasnt done drinking and drugging yet, so it didnt really matter what anyone said. I wasnt teachable.

15 years later when I beat myself into a teachable submission a friend took me to a meeting. I was willing to try new things. I learned that my perception of AA wasnt what it is. I learned loopholes around the word god, and I stayed sober for nine years and ten months.

I learned about the principles behind the steps. Principles do what they do. They don’t need an invisible sky daddy to work.

When I have tried to turn over my will and my life to an invisible sky daddy I’m always let down.

Being sober and seeking spirituality because I wanted to define the word god has been good for me. I have investigated every avenue I know of. Knowledge is power. Being open minded is important. I don’t have to buy anything without investigating it. I can study it from every angle before I decide to keep it. Clarity of mind from being sober is important to not taint the quality of my research.

In meetings, l hear people say how they didn’t do anything. God did it all for them. I find it cringey, but in between their cringey moments I hear some valuable info to help me stay sober though similar life challenges I have been facing. Take what you need and leave the rest.

I got bored with AA and started listening to other ideas. One of the ones that had a huge impact on me was that if you deal with all your issues from the past then you wont allow yourself to get lost in alcoholism again. You can have a drink responsibly.

I tried that and failed. False information for me. During my eight year relapse I twisted my thinking into hating AA. When I first found this place, I talked a lot of shit about AA and ruffled some feathers. I wasn’t successful at staying sober either.

Now I’m sober and comfortable in my recovery most of the time. I’ve been to 10-15 meetings in my two year four months and twenty days of sobriety.

Most of those meeting was when I was in Utah summer before last cleaning up wreckage of my past. I was way out of my comfort zone being in Utah. Those meetings were awesome!

I like to celebrate milestones there too. They will make you a cake. How cool is that? I have met amazing people who aren’t religious, and it reaches out into the community. I see them around town. It’s cool.

I’m not advocating or saying that you have to go to AA to stay sober. I haven’t been to a meeting in months. 99% of my recovery support has been here. I’m just saying don’t eliminate a very powerful recovery tool from your tool box because of the word GOD. That tool may come in handy one day.

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1543

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1544

So have you own thread and debate. This thread has another purpose. Why push your stuff upon this thread? And how do you think atheists feel about these following sort of threads? None of them want to debate their believe in god, they want to celebrate their belief in god.

Fine with me. I won’t interfere. But why do you feel the need to do so here? Let those who don’t want to join in believing in a god have their own thing. Nobody is kicking nobody in the balls. Unless it goes the other way too. Just some examples, there are literally 100’s of these around. BTW, 40 million people? Which 40 million people? There are over 4 billion monotheists in the world. Which 1 procent of those do you refer to?

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1546

Or don’t believe. Considering “atheist” a religion is like considering “non-smoking” as a habit. Been back to the Catholic faith recently, but after years as a “strict” agnostic, I learned a thing or two. If a faith tries to impose itself on others, regardless of who they are, showing contempt for “outsiders”, you’d be better stay far from it.

I’m OK with my spiritual side right now, although sometimes saying you’re a catholic here is like saying the same thing in Northern Ireland during the Troubles, let alone agnostic or atheist. The african religions? “DEVIL!!!”, for the fundamentalists, radical zealots.

Fundamentalism is the real disease in this case. I’d have a halal or kosher meal anytime, have a blessing from an african religion priest, sing in a protestant choir, no problem with thy neighbour, if said neighbour doesn’t want to erase your existence and think you’re morally destroyed.

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1547

This has literally blown into something it didn’t need to be and it’s so incredibly selfish… someone was reaching out to find other people who believe in what they do… to build a support system that they feel comfortable in… and now it is somehow being viewed as us atheist being disrespectful to 40 million people? I’m so disappointed honestly… :woman_facepalming:t2:

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1548

I’m not blacklisting or flaging you. I’m trying to talk with you. You, on the other hand, are talking to me. I asked you a couple of things. No answer. Just a stating of “facts” by you which to the best of my knowledge are not facts. Here’s the conclusion from a recent study:

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2994&context=dissertations

"This study helped to clarify the question of what works in recovery. The results
from this study indicate clearly that while believing in a higher power as promoted in AA
is an important tradition and an important part of the culture, it is social support that
stands out as the most significant variable in recovery. Social support was significantly
associated with length of sobriety, with satisfaction with life, and with quality of life.
This important finding provides the professionals who work with people in recovery with
a clear understanding of what works. Thus, treatment programs can focus their recovery
programs on building structures of social support around new members to increase their
chances of long-term success"

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1549

I completely agree. Anyone has that freedom to believe whatever they like and it should be the same for atheist without being questioned or challenged.

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1552

The immaturity and arrogance on this thread is ridiculous…. @Compen I’m here and would love to support each other in an atheist sober life :black_heart:

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1553

You know one of the wisest things I’ve ever heard was when talking about diets and looking at whether it should be low-carb, high-fat, intermittent fasting, nothing but Cheetos (boy i wish this was a thing lol) but whatever the options are, the correct answer is whatever resonates with you enough for you to be successful is the right diet! That’s it. There is no one-size-fits-all to anything in The Human Experience because we are so unique in our experiences, our dispositions, and our capabilities both in resources and cognitive faculties.

One bit of advice I would give them given your current situation is this

Use every part of the animal!

Ultimately I found buddhist techniques to be the most effective for me so I have followed Dharma & Refuge recovery. That being said I see wisdom and insight into my own problems every day from people posting the big book so even if you know when your heart there is no God, that doesn’t mean that what people call God and the different representations of the human psyche through various spiritual disciplines and ways to manipulate that for success doesn’t have significant values. While you’re there brother take everything you can! any tool because the reality is that even if somebody believes that all the planets are round because God is playing marbles so they must be round it doesn’t change the fact that all the planets are round!! so you can be very right for all the wrong reasons which I think is often the case in religious Concepts.

Great work on being sober, Welcome to the forum

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